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2015 Federal TrialtranscripttranscriptFor-Cause Challenges and Juror Qualification Rulings - Day 13 - 2015 Federal TrialJudge O'Toole resolves juror challenges during Day 13 jury selection, excusing juror 288 over death-penalty impairment, allowing two unopposed strikes, and requesting another interview of juror 276.
William D. WeinrebDavid I. BruckJudy ClarkeMiriam ConradGeorge A. O'Toole Jr.THE COURTMS. CLARKEMR. BRUCKMR. WEINREBMS. CONRADCourt Clerkjury_selection
2015 Federal Trial/Day 13/February 4, 2015
5 pages·0 witnesses·1,828 lines
Judge O'Toole explained capital-case sentencing rules before individual questioning explored publicity, prior opinions, hardship, and punishment views. The court later rejected challenges to Jurors 260 and 263, allowed unopposed strikes of Jurors 281 and 296, and excused Juror 288 as substantially impaired in considering death.
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THE COURT: Okay. Just running through the numbers. 248 I think was agreed?

260?

MS. CLARKE: 237 was agreed.

THE COURT: Right. Yes. I don't have his sheet. Sorry.

260?

MR. BRUCK: 260 we have a motion.

Your Honor, this is the juror who said that -- on his questionnaire, which I don't think the Court actually asked about but it was gone over -- oops. On the questionnaire he wrote on page 25, explaining the answer that life imprisonment was less severe than the death penalty, "Consistently some governor or president decides to release those sentenced to 'without release' or a judge decides to let them go."

I'll go into what he said in a moment, but I think it's worth beginning this by pointing out that we have now, by our count, questioned 129 jurors individually, and not one but Juror 260 has expressed this particular misconception, and it is a misconception, about the meaning of a life-without-release sentence.

Of all of the biases and pieces of misinformation and sort of jury room mythology that exists in our legal system, this is the most dangerous and the most pernicious in a capital case. It implicates the holdings of Simmons v. South Carolina which is the case in which the Supreme Court held that it violates due process to conceal from the sentencing jury the fact that life imprisonment means life without parole.

Now, it's not -- this is not on all fours with Simmons, but the point is that in Simmons, the Supreme Court accorded constitutional stature to the importance of the jury understanding that life without parole is the alternative to the death penalty. Now, there are lots of jurors who might say, Oh, well, I've heard that it doesn't really mean what it says, or I heard that Charlie Manson came up for parole or whatever, little bits and pieces, but this juror is in a different category. Consistently, he says. He's got a story in mind.

And then when I asked him about it here today he told a very integrated narrative, very fact-based. "Increasingly, over the last 20 to 30 years" -- he even had a time period in mind -- "we have observed that persons who have been convicted of atrocious crimes and sentenced to life without parole have, in fact, found someone to let them go so that I do not believe that a sentence of life without parole is, in fact, really the case [sic]. It is, in fact, a sentence of imprisonment with perhaps a small or large chance of release depending on how political life evolves over the next 20 years."

And here you have the real core of the problem, that this is about politics. It's about people's views of whether President Obama or this president or that president or the Democrats or the Republicans are soft on crime and they're going to let people out and commute folks. And it's all based on fantasy. There is no factual basis to any of this. No capital murderer in the federal system sentenced to life without parole has ever been released, and it's never going to happen. It certainly is not the case that over the last 20 to 30 years it's been happening increasingly or that we have observed it. This is just not true.

Now, there has been research done on this particular topic all over the country. There's a Law Review article by William Bowers from here at Northeastern who is the principal researcher of the Capital Jury Project, which is this extremely ambitious National Science Foundation-funded attempt to open the black box of what jurors do when they sentence to death or to life in capital cases.

And Professor Bowers has documented in ten different states the pervasiveness of this misconception, the myth of early release, it's called, and how jurors who hold to this myth get everything wrong about the capital sentencing system. Jurors who believe someone is going to be released early give less weight to mitigating factors and more weight to aggravating factors; they are quicker to find the defendant is dangerous than jurors who don't hold that belief. And it actually can be mathematically calculated because you can ask people when do you think defendants get out if they're not given the death penalty, and jurors give a number. And you can actually correlate the number to the degree to which jurors make harsher judgments across the board. So this is not something that we don't know about. This is a classic form of bias. Now, I realize that good lawyer that he is, Mr. Weinreb got the desired response at the end which was, and I quote, asked -- Mr. Weinreb posited an instruction that I have never heard given in any case, which was not just can you accept that the verdict of life without release or death, but if you were instructed that life without release means that there -- I can't remember exactly but it was something like means exactly what it says and you are not to speculate otherwise, or words to that effect -- now, maybe the Court intends to give some type of table-pounding instruction like that, but as I say, I don't think it's an instruction that has ever been given before. We can't assume that it's going to be given.

And the juror's -- the most revealing thing about the juror's response was not what he said but the 15 seconds of silence that followed the question. He just sat there and thought about it. And then he said very carefully, "This isn't the case that a jury should worry about deeper issues."

Well, that is very thin ice to rest the fairness of these proceedings on. And as I say, this is -- with 129 jurors we've encountered this problem exactly once. There is no reason to qualify this juror and take the risk that this highly educated juror who may well persuade the rest of the jury to his point of view that life doesn't really mean life and you're going to see Jahar Tsarnaev back on the street in 20 or 30 years if you don't give him the death penalty -- there's no reason to take that risk.

On top of that, I have to say, and I don't want to reargue the issue about Morgan qualifications, but we were really closed in in asking this juror the most basic questions. He described -- he posited types of cases -- or he described a case in which the death penalty would be appropriate and we weren't allowed to ask: Is it this case.

So there are really a lot of unknowns about this juror. And everything on balance -- I appreciate your hearing me out at great length -- but we think this is huge, and on balance, we think he should be excused.

MR. WEINREB: Your Honor, the government opposes the motion. This was the kind of juror who I think we've seen several of over the course of the proceedings here, which is an engineer who is quite confident in his ability to put aside anything that he may feel. Jurors put it differently, sometimes they put it as their personal views, sometimes they put it as their subjective views and decide the case objectively according to the instructions that they're given, based on the evidence in court. And there's no reason to doubt that this juror would be any different, that when I asked him whether if he were told that the choice was between life in prison without possibility of release and death, whether he could accept that those were the two choices, and those would be the two things he would be deciding between.

And I dispute the characterization that there was a 15-second pause. I don't think that's true at all. I think he was simply trying to, as these types of jurors often do, find the words to express himself precisely. And it sounded like what he was saying is that regardless of what I may believe might be true in connection with other cases, it wouldn't affect me in this case because I don't see it as being an issue in this case. And that, again, is even more reason why I think that this -- this objection is not well taken in this case.

That response, I think, leaves no reason to worry that he will try to convince the other jurors that Mr. Tsarnaev will be released one day, because he just told us that he believed the exact opposite would be true if he were sentenced to life without parole, and there's no reason to believe that he would try to foist his views of extraneous matters onto the other jurors as well.

He didn't strike me as that kind of person, and I just think that this is -- I could imagine situations or cases where a juror seemed to cling tenaciously to views of the law or to views of the proceedings that were contrary to the law or to instructions or who didn't seem to understand what the law or the instructions meant, but this is not that juror. He understood perfectly, he understood what was being asked of him, and he gave a reassuring answer.

MR. BRUCK: Very briefly --

THE COURT: I don't think he's finished.

MR. WEINREB: I'm sorry. I just wanted to point out he did say, "I don't want to make up my own rules for this."

MR. BRUCK: Very briefly, he -- the final answer really was a little evasive, but on top of which what is so pernicious about this is that he will listen to you instruct on the law, but he has told us not once but in the questionnaire and again today that he doesn't think you really know what's going to happen. This is not a legal issue, this is a factual issue, and one that he has observed over 20 to 30 years.

So he can accept what you say as being what you say and yet he knows what's what. The extent to which this will color his judgment -- even if as an engineer he says, Okay, I'm going to treat this as what it is, and yet it infects the way he looks at everything in the case. And that is why this is such a dangerous misconception.

THE COURT: I'm satisfied with him. I think he presented as an intelligent, precise kind of person. He, I think, described himself as dealing with data sets and making conclusions about them to the exclusion of other things. To the extent there's a danger about misconception, I think it can be cured by an appropriate instruction -- or not cured, precluded, I guess, is a better way to put it, by an appropriate instruction.

I think 262 was removed during the interview.

That brings us to 263.

MS. CLARKE: There is a defense motion.

MR. BRUCK: Yes, your Honor. This is the juror who served in Vietnam. He didn't actually mention it but the period of his service coincided with the Tet Offensive. He was there from 1967 until the middle of 1968.

The Court has excused jurors who were friends with or related to -- I think one was a cousin -- who had come back from Afghanistan and had seen or been exposed to or perhaps having been wounded by an IED and recovered. Quite indirect. This is the juror himself.

In response to a question from the defense about have you seen, did you see people in -- who were injured or killed by explosives, which is what we are dealing with in this case, that was the one point of real drama in what otherwise was a very unremarkable voir dire examination. He said, "More than you would ever want to know about" or words to that effect. There was some real emotion there.

He is going to see things which trigger that in this case. He is way too close. This is absolutely no disrespect to people that went over to Vietnam and had these experiences, it's just that the evidence in this case is too close -- or it may become too close. There is reason to believe -- I've talked before about the fact that we have a pending motion to try to resist the government's none-too-subtle attempt to make this seem like a military attack where you will have a trauma surgeon from Iraq and Afghanistan who was at Mass. General describing how he knows that these are IEDs because he can describe the IED wounds that he saw suffered by our troops in both of those countries during his tour as a combat trauma surgeon. It's all going to come back.

This is also a juror who used almost military terminology to express his eagerness to serve. It was all very admirable. I don't mean to be critical. But we all are aware of the issues surrounding this case and the fact that everybody knows about it and everybody -- almost everybody has strong feelings about it. And on balance, this is a juror who ought to be disqualified.

MR. WEINREB: Your Honor, the government opposes the motion. The whole point of asking questions like the ones on the questionnaire is to give an opportunity to follow up and determine whether a yes answer will mean that the juror will not be able to sit fairly and impartially.

This juror gave absolutely nothing in his response to the follow-up to that question to indicate that it would in any way affect his deliberations in this case in contrast to some of the other people who may have been one step removed knowing someone else who was there who said that it would weigh on their mind, it would be something that would affect them. No one would know better than he whether he will be affected by it, and he told us that he would not be.

I also think as a general proposition it's simply speculative to say that because you observed something at some point in your life that you will not be able to set that aside and decide a case on the evidence. In wars, people shoot at each other too with guns, but it's not the case that every single person who has served in the military and ever seen combat is excluded from serving as a juror on any violent crime case that involves guns. You know, they use fire in wars to burn things but we don't exclude all our veterans who saw combat from serving on arson cases or cases that involve fire.

There's no point to keep going on and on. The point is that it may be legitimate to ask the juror whether that experience would have an effect on him, but it's not legitimate to simply speculate that it must have an effect on him despite his saying to the contrary.

THE COURT: Okay. I think he's satisfactory. I think there's a significant difference between experiences, direct or indirect, with Afghanistan and Iraq, on the one hand, and Vietnam several decades ago on the other. The conflicts themselves were different. It's not just the remoteness but some differences in kind, I guess.

My impression of this fellow was he's a very interesting guy who seemed committed to the task of doing the right thing as a juror. I mean, he expressed it in patriotic terms, I guess, but he seemed like somebody -- if I recall, he had recent jury experience, found it satisfying, and was ready to saddle up and do it again. I don't think that's a -- I think that's fine.

MS. CONRAD: May I just say one thing, though, your Honor? I believe with this juror I was the one asking him questions, and I may be mixing it up with some other jurors, but there were some questions about views on the death penalty which were shut down by objections sustained by the government. My recollection was that in particular that he -- I think he had selected 10 as reflecting his views, and my efforts to follow up on that were curtailed.

Your Honor, I think, asked whether he would automatically vote for the death penalty in any case in which it applied, and he said no. And I attempted to ask whether he would vote for it in any intentional premeditated -- "premeditated" being his word -- murder case, and I was not allowed to ask that question which goes straight to the Morgan issue.

And so I think it's the combination of those two things. And I think that the fact that he selected and stood by 10 as the correct place, which is essentially a Morgan juror, is another basis for striking him.

THE COURT: Yeah. He gave a different answer to Question 90, and I think I was satisfied with that and the follow-up on those questions, so I'll clear him.

I think the next one was a hardship excuse.

THE COURT: 267 I think was agreed?

[REDACTED]

MS. CLARKE: Oh, right.

MR. WEINREB: So that was agreed.

MR. BRUCK: That was agreed.

THE COURT: Yeah. He's out.

MS. CLARKE: You have different stacks than us.

THE COURT: 271, I think, was agreed.

THE COURT: -- as well?

275 -- yeah, 275 again.

277 was before we interviewed.

281?

MS. CLARKE: I think that's a defense motion for a strike that the government does not oppose.

THE COURT: I thought he was okay but I could be talked out of that.

MR. BRUCK: I think he ended up with pretty clearly disqualify things.

THE COURT: I think he -- he said different things. I agree with that. It's hard to -- I think it's asked the same thing by three different people three different ways, it's not surprising that it comes out sometimes in different ways. It really is kind of an assessment of which one is closest to what he really thinks. And I guess I thought it was -- he was more, I guess, comfortable with his answers, which I took as they were more what he really thought when I was asking him the questions in the beginning and he was allowing that he could do either -- make either choice. I know he got twisted around later. If you looked only at the cold record, it would be confusing. He seemed like an honest young man who would try to make a call.

I guess the one point I was concerned about is his loyalty to his friends, and he had a friend who served in Afghanistan. And perhaps that's a more important reason than the way he answered the questions, so...

MR. BRUCK: We still make the motion, and I don't know that the government opposes it.

MR. WEINREB: Yeah, your Honor, we don't oppose the motion. Although I don't take issue with anything the Court said, we're naturally thinking ahead to the record on appeal, and we are concerned about what it's going to look like on a cold record.

THE COURT: Yeah, of course. Yeah, there is always the footnote to the cold record that it is only a cold record.

MR. WEINREB: Absolutely.

THE COURT: And that's why I wanted, where it's appropriate, and if there's body language that seems to affect my judgment, I want to make sure that's clear. I don't know that -- how much weight that will carry in the end but it's...

MR. BRUCK: The First Circuit will have the novel question of whether 15 percent loyalty to one's friend is too much. He quantified it.

THE COURT: I thought 85 percent sure was pretty good, but that was the other side of the --

MR. BRUCK: But that left 15 percent unsure.

MR. WEINREB: I don't think that's a fair objection to him because that question could have been interpreted as meaning -- by him as meaning that that would essentially be an aggravating kind of factor, not necessarily that he would allow personal feelings to interfere with a rational evaluation of the evidence. But, I mean, our only concern is the one we voiced.

THE COURT: Well, I guess if there's no opposition to it, I'll allow it.

283?

MR. WEINREB: So, your Honor, the government has a motion on 283 solely on grounds of hardship. We have been routinely striking full-time students of all stripes. I recognize that this student is not currently taking classes or having paid tuition, so she's in a different class, but if she turns out to be essentially an hourly worker who will plainly be impaired -- I'm sorry -- a salaried --

THE COURT: "Stipened," I think is the word she used.

MR. WEINREB: But I think what she said in the end is that she's on a grant, that basically they wrote into the grant money for her, and I think it's fair to infer that she needs to do the work, or work on the grant, to get the money. And she -- you know, she made it clear -- unlike a lot of other jurors who have said, you know, they could get by one way or another, she made it clear that if she didn't get paid, she couldn't pay the bills and that it would be, you know, a huge problem for her.

So everything depends on whether she actually is going to get paid or not and she really doesn't know. And she said that she hadn't really thought until she got here today about how -- what -- you know, how essentially catastrophic it would be for her from a financial perspective if she didn't get paid.

That is a very risky person to put on the jury. And given the number that we have to pick from, it just seems like there's no reason to risk it. You know, many jurors who know that they're facing potential financial hardship find out about it. They find out what the situation is so they can come in here and say it.

And, you know, for us to seat her now and then have her find out after the trial starts, which could be as early as, you know, a week or ten days from now that she's not going to get paid, there's no reason to take a risk like that when we have alternatives.

And I think it's also fair to consider in conjunction with that the detriment to her professional career. She is in -- she is a -- getting a Ph.D. that's all about doing research and publishing it. She said she spent six months working on this, and that if somebody else beats them to the punch it all would have been wasted, not just for her but for her colleagues.

She said that although she has other people who are working on it, they would -- her absence would be felt and would impair the effort, maybe defeat the effort, in which case she'll have suffered a hit to her career that seems like a big one.

And she said that even though she could work on the -- do research, you know, at nights or on weekends and so on, that, again, is asking her to do, you know, essentially two full-time jobs when it's an unnecessary burden for her when somebody else could serve in her place.

So she seems like she would be a good juror in many cases but it seems unfair to force her to serve for three to four months under these conditions, especially when others in like circumstances have been excused.

THE COURT: Before I hear from the defense, let me -- this is kind of an aside because I don't know anywhere near what you know about the evidence, what was all the significance of the courtyard?

MR. WEINREB: So Officer Sean Collier was murdered in between two buildings, one, the building she works in every day, and another building called the Koch Center. There was a surveillance video taken of it but it was taken from the top of a very tall building from very far away, so it's not possible to see the faces of the figures or what exactly they do. What you can do, you can see them rounding the corner from Ames Street walking along the length of the Koch Center, walking around the corner to where the car is parked, retreating in the same direction. And then there will be -- there's other video of a car, which the government will argue was their car, driving down Ames Street at a certain time on a certain surveillance video.

So the geography of the area is going to figure importantly in the government's case. Whether the brothers could have come from that direction, whether the two people on the video could have -- could have shot somebody, executed them right there in this courtyard where people come and go, whether it's typically crowded at that time of night or not, whether it would be -- you know, people would be too worried that others might see them from the windows or not.

It's not like what happened on Boylston Street, which is not really in dispute. There was videotaped and photograph from any number of directions and there were tons of eyewitnesses to the event. There's no eyewitness to the murder here. And it's just a concern that if questions arose of the type that I've just mentioned, wouldn't somebody have heard it, you know, wouldn't somebody have seen it, that she would wind up being a witness in the jury room potentially to those things: "No, from the Stata Center you can't hear anything," or "There are no windows that face that area," or something like that. That's yet a third reason why she's not the right juror for this case.

MR. BRUCK: Well, I don't know if the Court really needs to hear from me about this. It's quite obvious that Mr. Weinreb said he was concerned for this young woman's professional career has to do with her views on the death penalty, which are not be favorable to the government, although she is clearly qualified under Witherspoon.

The Court gave her every opportunity to claim a hardship and she thought about it. She's obviously an extremely educated, intelligent person and she thought about it, and she feels like Fridays and weekends and evenings are enough. She's a single person, she doesn't have any family responsibilities that -- or at least we can infer that. There is just no reason not to take her at her word that she can manage this.

And I don't think any other juror's had sort of a hardship excuse imposed on them, and I don't think just because she's against the death penalty the government ought to successfully be able to argue it should be done in this one instance.

As far as -- I mean, the Court has already said if you're going to be familiar with Main Street, does that mean that you can't sit on a jury for a crime that occurs on Main Street? None of the issues that Mr. Weinreb has talked about are going to be in any great contention in this trial.

And even if they were, she's at MIT. A lot of other people who the government likes just fine work at MIT and this issue has never been raised before. The nub of the problem is that they hoped that she would say that she could never impose the death penalty and she absolutely never said that and is a perfect example of the sort of juror that must be found qualified under Witherspoon, so that the government has been extremely creative in thinking of other ways to get rid of her, but none of them have any merit.

THE COURT: One reservation about the geography issue, if I can call it that, if she were on the jury she would finish her day here and go back to the Stata building every day. Isn't that a tricky problem?

MR. WEINREB: I think it is, again, for this reason: That if the question --

THE COURT: Let me just expand on it. It's a little -- I used the example of Main Street, but perhaps there's a little bit more than just knowing Main Street. I mean --

MR. BRUCK: If there was an issue.

THE COURT: -- she's going back to work in the venue, I guess.

MR. BRUCK: If there was an issue about all of the things that Mr. Weinreb is describing, if these things were going to be in dispute, but I mean, she also --

THE COURT: I guess I'm just thinking about the ethos generally, the atmosphere. Not necessarily what she could specifically say about the place, but she's going to be surrounded by MIT people every night after trial.

MR. BRUCK: Well, that would be a concern -- I mean, that would be a concern for us, but we don't express it. We don't make that motion. We're fine with it.

THE COURT: I guess that's what I wanted to be certain of.

MR. BRUCK: Absolutely. We're prepared to take that minimal risk.

THE COURT: So I do not think she's disqualifiable on the hardship. The way I heard it, she hasn't nailed it down. And it's interesting how many people have not. I would think that would be one of the first things that you would find out. And so I'm perhaps reading a little between the lines of those that haven't found out really have and it's not so bad. I don't know how strictly grant money is accounted for. They suggested that if they couldn't get it out of the grant, they would find it somewhere else.

MR. BRUCK: She said there were mechanisms.

THE COURT: It looks like they're going to take care of her. So I don't think the hardship is sufficient, and so I think she's passable. We'll accept her.

The next is 286. Anything? Anything on 286? No? Okay. She's passed.

288?

MR. WEINREB: Your Honor, the government has a motion. Does the Court need to hear argument on it? We thought it was pretty clear at the end that she --

THE COURT: Is there disagreement on it?

MR. BRUCK: I don't think it was clear at all, no.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

MR. WEINREB: So this is a juror who by the end of the voir dire was extremely clear in her -- that she was impaired in her ability to impose the death penalty. She was asked no fewer than four times, sometimes by me and sometimes by Mr. Bruck, who was trying to rehabilitate her at the time whether she could impose the death penalty. And four times she said, "I'm not sure." "I am not sure that I could do it."

And this was not the kind of "not sure" like "I think I could do it but, you know, you have to be there to know in the end," this was somebody who was really stating her belief that she was so opposed to the death penalty, confused about her views on it, was unsure she could handle it. In fact, she said, "I don't know if I could handle the responsibility of it," that she seemed quite unsure whether she could ever do it in any case.

And I think it's telling that her answers really evolved just during the questioning that she -- as she thought about it more and more sitting there, it seemed to become clearer and clearer to her that she was impaired in her ability to do it. And I think had the questioning gone on even further, she would have made it to "I don't think I can do it" or "I can't do it" as we have seen many jurors do sitting in that chair.

It's one thing to think about it in the abstract ahead of time, it's another thing to really have to face the prospect of possibly having to impose it. Sitting in this room is a very important step towards that process. You're sitting at the table with the defendant, you're realizing that this is something that you might actually be in a position to do. And the more she thought about it, the less certain she was that she would be able to do it.

And the government is not -- is entitled to jurors who can do it; not ones who can't, not ones who are not sure, but ones who can, albeit even -- even if it's only in limited cases. But that's not what she was saying. She was talking about any case.

MR. BRUCK: This juror was pretty much a carbon copy of the juror against whom you denied a challenge last week. That is the situation of a juror who is asked to hypothesize a future situation which she had never thought about before in which very few people can predict with certainty what their reaction will be. And that's what she was unsure about. Not that she couldn't do it, not that she didn't think she could, but that she was unsure, projecting herself into this rather strange hypothetical situation which the questions were posited. If you leave that aside, she was perfectly qualified. She even changed her estimation of her own position on Question 90 from C to D as she worked through this process.

Now, there's nothing unusual about a juror whose positions are slightly evolving or shifting. We had two or three or four jurors who said the same thing today, that they were changing their thinking a little bit, or had changed it within the last little while, since this process began. So that doesn't single her out or make her subject to disqualification at all.

And she had many, many responses which were qualifying. And the only ambiguity at the end was being unsure what would happen at the end of the process if she was confronted with the actual decision. A young lady said exactly the same thing last week and the government made exactly the same objection and the Court found that she was qualified on the grounds that this is just too thin a hypothetical read to find someone disqualified under Witherspoon.

And we think the government may not want her on the jury, they may well strike her, and they may mostly be concerned that, like many jurors, she takes full account of the retributive impact of a life without parole sentence on a 19-year-old defendant. And that's not good for the government's case for the death penalty but that's no grounds for disqualification.

MR. WEINREB: Your Honor, if I can just respond for one moment? This is not like other jurors we have heard in that this juror is very much like the juror in Mu'min who seemed confused by the questions, seemed -- was very confused in her answers. There was a long -- a lot of talk about her opposition to the death penalty being it isn't severe enough and yet being reluctant to impose it because of how severe it is, and she -- as it was -- as she continued with her somewhat confusing and ambiguous answers, it became clear that she is not the kind of juror who is reluctant to impose the death penalty, has decided that she could do it in an appropriate case and simply is not sure she could actually cast the vote because never having been there, she doesn't know if she'll be able to make it over that final hurdle, which I think are the jurors who the Court in the past week may have qualified.

This is a juror, who thinking about it, really grappling with it for the first time sitting in that chair came to the conclusion that she was really not sure she could ever impose the death penalty because of her feelings about it.

THE COURT: Yeah, I think the place she came to rest was "not sure" on Question 95, which is a change from what she had put on the questionnaire, and it seemed to me anyway as she was thinking further about this whole issue and as she was giving some of these "not sure" answers that her face colored a little. She seemed to be having some emotion with that. And I think that I would have to conclude that she is substantially impaired in that respect.

I think the remaining three are all resolved as out.

MS. CLARKE: 290 was an agreed --

THE COURT: 290. 292 was the corrections officer.

MS. CLARKE: And 296 is a government's motion.

THE COURT: Maybe I'm tipping my hand here.

MR. WEINREB: Is this one in which the Court needs to hear argument?

THE COURT: Yeah, because I think the opposite so...

THE COURT: If you're moving -- oh, no. You're moving to strike him?

MR. WEINREB: I'm moving to strike him, yes.

THE COURT: Is that opposed?

THE COURT: Yeah, okay. All right.

Could we have the recap? The ones cleared would be 260, 263, 273 --

COURT CLERK: 286.

THE COURT: -- 286.

I think that's it. Okay? Done for the day.

MR. WEINREB: At least we got four.

THE COURT: I don't think I have the -- I left it probably in the back. There was one that I think you had agreed on, 276, and I said I would look at it. I think I'd like to have him interviewed.

MS. CLARKE: Okay. So can Jim tell us who's coming in?

THE COURT: But that will probably be Monday, Jim said.

COURT CLERK: Yeah, so he won't be until Monday.

THE COURT: Okay? All right. Thank you. See you tomorrow.

(The Court exits the courtroom and the proceedings adjourned at 4:35 p.m.)

Continue to Day 141.Preliminary Instructions on Guilt and Capital Sentencing