3.Edward S. Knapp — Direct/Cross (Part 2)
524 lines(In open court:)
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, based on this evidence that you -- was submitted to you, 949 and 949A, did you create a modified version of an exemplar transmitter that would be comparable to the one that was seized in this case?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And how did you make the modifications to the version of the device that you bought off the shelf?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Removed the trigger and the cutback on the throttle, put the battery pack up beneath where the LCD or the circuit board was. This stuff was -- like I said, we have all kinds of examiners in the FBI in our operational technology division. They have examiners there also. So evidence went over to them, besides in our laboratory, to determine examinations on particular items, whether they're with computers or like this transmitter here that had gone over to them also. But the modifications we made were like the modifications of that transmitter. And that transmitter basically was modified in such a way that when you turn on the power button, it's going to send a full output to that electronic speed controller which then is going to, you know, send the current -- all the current, to those where we talked about, those two outputs to the motor. And where that would have been, that's where the initiator -- the improvised initiator would have been, and it would have -- you know, it would light up.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: So instead of having to turn the throttle or to pull a trigger, just turning the transmitter on would send a full signal?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: The power button on that Flysky, yes. When you turn that on, it would send a full output to the electronic speed controller because what it was seeing was a full reverse -- like you were running the car full reverse.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: So, Agent Knapp, how sophisticated would you have to be in order to create the improvised explosive device you described?
MR. WATKINS: I'm going to object, your Honor.
THE COURT: Go ahead. You can answer.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: You have knowledge of hobby cars, the components. You might do a little bit of a testing to make sure you, you know, get the right hookups. But commonly available out there in the Internet, how to modify. There's other Internet sites out there. It's not that too sophisticated. I mean, if you know you have the components of the hobby car, once you use your transmitter, press a button, and you can get it to the output of the electronic speed controller, it's not too difficult of a system to build.
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And you mentioned information is available on the Internet about that?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Right. Widely available on just R/C models and transmitters, different receivers, how to increase power to your cars. All these hobbyists out there that go around and fly planes or race cars.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And so that's all with regards to the R/C component, the radio-controlled, remote-control component to this?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Right.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: How about the assembly of improvised explosive devices?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: There's many sites out there available on the website. Some give you step-by-step instructions on how to build an IED or bomb.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And have you seen pipe bombs many times in your career?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And the principles behind building a pipe bomb, are those pretty widely available as well?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Now, have you had a chance to review the Inspire magazine which details the instructions they propose to build an improvised explosive device?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: If we could call up 1142-91, page 3. Sorry. Next page, please.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, does this first section of the "how to" portion of this article say that there are two types of explosions? The first is a chemical explosion. "This explosive causes great pressure that would kill living beings within a certain radius. Examples are all the military-grade explosions such as TNT, CR and RDX." Did I read that first section properly?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes, just the chemical explosion and you have mechanical explosions.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And so the type of IED that you've described on Boylston Street in Watertown, those are not chemical explosions, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Well, there was a chemical reaction for the low explosive, and then the container relieved and mechanically separated with the pressure being built up from the explosives.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Okay. So does this article next go on to read, "The mechanical explosion: This results from the burning of an inflammable material within a confined space. An example is putting gunpowder inside an iron pipe with a small opening enough only for a fuse. When the gunpowder is ignited, great pressure results from the gunpowder turning into gases, and which result in the exploding of the iron pipe, turning it into shrapnel flying at a high speed." Did I read that properly?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And is that the type of explosion that you were describing earlier?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah. I mean, it relieves the container, it relieves -- just like any buildup of pressure, whatever that comes from, there's a buildup of pressure and it relieves the vessel or container.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And does the Inspire magazine also suggest an elbow pipe, some flammable material which I think Inspire calls "inflammable substance," and then what appears to be a Christmas tree light?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Section B gives instructions on how to extract the inflammable substance. And does it say that -- does it propose to strike the head of the match softly?
MR. WATKINS: Your Honor, I'm going to object to Mr. Chakravarty continuing to read all of this. If he wants the witness to read...
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, if you wouldn't mind reading --
EDWARD S. KNAPP: "Grind the substance and filter to obtain a fine powder. In the picture you will see the fine powder and you will add sugar equivalent to one-quarter its quantity. Mix the two substances until they become uniform in color."
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: What's the purpose of these instructions?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Basically to get a low explosion composition, harvest it off of matches, and stick a fuel in there and mix it up and you have a low explosive.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Next page, please.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Preparation of the decoration lamp?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, this basically is telling you, you know, be careful how you open up a little Christmas tree bulb. Be careful of the filament, because if you break the continuity of that, you're not going to have an initiator. There's a little filament in there, and they say to carefully place it inside your low explosive. Just an improvised initiator using a Christmas tree bulb.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And is that a process that takes some experience in doing effectively?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: It's -- sometimes it can be tricky when you break that glass bulb and then you ruin the inside filament, but it just takes, you know, just a little bit of ability to crack the glass just right. But nothing too sophisticated about that.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: This next section talks about preparation of the iron pipe and it suggests drilling a hole in the pipe. Is that right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Right. I mean, you have to insert your initiator somehow, whether it was a Christmas tree light as they're talking this way, or just a piece of that green hobby fuse into your pipe.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Next page, please.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: It says the final preparation. Can you read this, please?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: "Pour some inflammable substance into the lamp. Do so gently in order not to tear the filament, which is very sensitive. The device will not explode if the filament is torn. "Insert the lamp into the pipe with the wires sticking out. "Fill the pipe with the inflammable substance. Avoid having any of the substance on the threads of the pipe so that it won't ignite when closing the pipe. "Wrap tape around the pipe to close the hole which was drilled into the pipe only leaving the wires sticking out. The tape will surround the wires, closing any gaps in the pipe and will not wrap around them."
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: It continues down here.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: "You may substitute the inflammable substance extracted from the matches by gunpowder used in cartridges but you may also use powder from fireworks instead. Note: You do not have to use one substance. You may mix together the substance from matches, gunpowder or fireworks, but in doing so, you'll need to mix them well," and it goes on to talk about electricity source.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: So just on the flammable substance they're talking about, those are all low explosives that they describe there?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, that's low explosive.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Okay. Please continue with the electricity source.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: "The importance of the electricity source in the explosive device is that it is the key in igniting the device. The electricity that is sufficient to turn on a small lamp is sufficient to cause an explosion. This electrical current may reach to the lamp directly through a battery, by a time circuit or by a remote-controlled circuit."
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And is the hobby car fusing system that you described earlier -- is that a remote-controlled circuit?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Next page.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Now, did they give an example of the timed circuit here?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, they have chosen for you a timed circuit as it is simple. "We set up the circuit which is composed of a 9-volt battery, a wire connected to the plus of the battery and a nail, the red wire, a wire connected to the negative of the battery, and a test lamp, the black wire. "Note: You may use any small lamp here. Take notice that this is not a lamp we filled before with the inflammable substance. We connect from the other pole of the lamp a green wire. When this wire touches the nail, the circuit is closed and the lamp should light." This is simply a very basic -- you got a power source. The switch they have is the nail touching the other side of the wire, and the power source is hooked up and you have a little light and it will come on.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: So far with the exception of the typos, are the instructions they've been giving consistent with how you understand an IED would work?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Consistent with a fusing system, a simple fusing system, yes; that you could use in an IED, yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Next page, please.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And then this page, it describes the --
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Modifying a mechanical clock in using two contacts. Once they touch, it's a switch. Just like in the previous, they use the nail to the wire. They're just using the hands of the clock with a wire. And once -- they're talking about using one of the hands, and once it comes and touches a nail, it completes the circuit, a simple circuit.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Next page, please.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: This middle section, is it more details about that timed explosive?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, correct, using the timer to function up in the top, the light or how you could set it up to function that pipe bomb.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: I want to focus in on this bottom section which talks about fragmentation. Can you read that?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah. "It is important to put a quantity of small nails on the surface of the iron pipe from the inside. You do that by sticking them to the wall of the pipe by using glue. The pipe used here is a 2-inch one. The inflammable substance used to fill it was extracted from 80 match heads. The explosion that results from this device is a mechanical one. It results from the pressure caused by the gases and, therefore, it only works if contained in a high-pressure environment. So you may use iron pipes, pressure cookers, fire extinguishers or empty propane canisters. The point is that the inflammable substance needs to be" --
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Next page, please.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: -- "contained in a strong container that would allow the pressure to build up and thus cause a damaging explosion."
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: All right. If I could ask you to stop there?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Your Honor, I think we were going to break a little early?
THE COURT: How much more do you have on this topic?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: This topic, just to the end of this article. So just a couple more minutes?
THE COURT: Yeah, go ahead.
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Now, they mention fragmentation such as small nails?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Right.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Which of the devices in this investigation had small nails as an apparent secondary fragmentation?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That was at Scene B.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And that's the blast in front of the Forum restaurant?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Would you please continue reading?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: "However, in order to fill, for example, a pressurized cooker with the substance from matches, it would take a lot of matches to do so; therefore, you may want to use gunpowder or powder from fireworks. "You need to also include shrapnel. The best shrapnel are the spherical-shaped ones. As you can see in the figures below, you need to glue them to the surface of your canister. If steel pellets are not available, you may use nails instead. Above is a 2-inch iron pipe with nails inside it. You fill the inflammable substance afterwards."
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Please continue.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: "The next three points illustrated by the previous images are for shrapnel used with a gas canister. The shape of nails: You may place the nails in a mold or pour glue over them, and when dry you remove them from the mold, wrap the molded nails around the canister. After wrapping the shrapnel around the canister, empty the canister from the gas and open the valve and then fill it with the inflammable substance. Insert the lamp with the wires sticking out just as you did earlier with the iron pipe. "With that said, here are some important steps to take for an effective explosive device: Place the device in a crowded area. Camouflage the device with something that would not hinder the shrapnel, such as cardboard."
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: When it's talking about gas canister in this article, do you understand that to mean like a propane-gas-type canister or --
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Any type of -- yeah, fire extinguisher, propane canister.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And in this investigation did you recover materials such as cardboard --
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes, we did.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: -- from each of the scenes, on Scenes A and B?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Read the iron pipe method.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: "The iron pipe method is effective if more than one is used simultaneously. To do so, bundle one wire from each pipe together and then bundle the remaining wires together as you may see in the illustration to the bottom right. One bundle would represent the green wire which connects to the clock's hour arm. The other bundle connects to the...on the battery." The negative of the battery.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: The negative terminal of the battery? All right. Read this section, please.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: "The pressurized cooker is the most effective method. Glue the shrapnel to the inside of the pressurized cooker, then fill in the cooker with inflammable material. Insert the prepared lamp into the inflammable material gently in order not to break the filament of the lamp. Then have the wires sticking out of the hole in the lid of the cooker. Wrap some tape around the hole to seal any openings and connect the wires to the electric source in the same way we did with the iron pipe."
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: With regards to the non-electrical fusing system that you found from the Boylston Street devices, are these instructions consistent with what you uncovered in your investigation?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Right. They add the fragmentation, the shrapnel. They had the BBs in Scene A embedded with a sealant, and they had the fragmentation with the BBs and the small nails inside the pressure cooker in Scene B, in a sealant.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And then you described earlier the nuance with getting the Christmas tree light done right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: I'll conclude with this. Read the safety precautions.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: "The following are a few safety precautions: Put your trust in Allah and pray for the success of your operation. This is the most important rule: To wear gloves throughout the preparation of the explosive to avoid leaving behind fingerprints. Three, this is an explosive device so take care during preparation and handling. In the article we covered one of the many ideas for a lone mujahideen. We ask Allah to assist our brothers in targeting his enemies and we ask Allah to grant us victory."
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: This is a good place to break, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. We'll take the recess at this point.
COURT CLERK: All rise for the Court and the jury. The Court will take the lunch recess.
(The Court and jury exit the courtroom and there is a recess in the proceedings at 12:53 p.m.)
COURT CLERK: All rise for the Court and the jury.
(The Court and jury enter the courtroom at 2:13 p.m.)
COURT CLERK: Be seated.
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, you described earlier that some mockup devices were made, and you said that you had constructed the configuration of these mockup devices to comport to the devices that you've spoken about that were -- evidence of which was found in this case. Is that right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes, that's correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Did you bring those into court with you today?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And so do you have a mockup device for the Scene A pressure cooker bomb?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And that we'll call 1568. And for the Scene B pressure cooker bomb, is that 1569?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And then for the materials that -- the inert explosive materials that were in the Rubbermaid container that was found in Watertown, did you bring an inert facsimile of that substance?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Okay. And for the facsimile of that substance, we're going to mark that as 1570. And for the pressure cooker bomb at Watertown, is that 1571?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Am I supposed to be seeing something on the screen?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: You don't know the number. Okay. I'll show you. Did you bring the mockup for the Watertown pressure cooker bomb?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And did you also bring the mockups for the two pipe bombs that were rendered safe in Watertown and you had mockups made?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And are all of these helpful to explaining your testimony about how each of these devices worked?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: For the fusing systems, yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And can you explain how you approximated how much explosive material to put in?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Before the -- we said the volume of those Fagor pressure cookers, half to full, estimated that it was about eight pounds if it was full to 16 pounds, and then of course the smaller one would have had less than the larger ones.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And about -- for the pipe bombs, you actually were able to collect the unexploded material from the Watertown devices. Is that fair to say?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Well, they were -- like I said, they were rendered safe and the powder was taken out of them before they came down to us.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And did you approximate that -- sorry. In the mockups that you made there is no powder, correct?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: There is no powder.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Your Honor, at this point I would ask permission to have SSA Knapp approach the podium with each of those exhibits and demonstrate -- or to show that -- each of the components of those exhibits to the jury.
THE COURT: That's fine. It's ahead of the -- I'm not sure if you've worked out the lines of sight for counsel.
MR. WATKINS: I'll move around if the Court doesn't mind.
THE COURT: Move around or move to a spot?
(Laughter.)
MR. WATKINS: I will move to one spot and try my best to stay still.
THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead. Proceed.
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, if you'll come to the podium here again.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: (Witness complies.)
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, just keep your voice up so everyone can hear what you're saying.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: This was the pressure cookers from the mockup from Scene A, a hobby fuse coming out of it. Inside was the fusing system we talked about earlier. Now, we found fragments of cardboard taped up around, and then the inside -- I mean, the fragmentation was on the inside and it was with a sealant, and these were where the BBs were encased inside. We found this pink-like rosin paper encasing just on the outside. Those would have been placed in here. And this was the -- what we talked about before, electronic speed controller. We have the Flysky receiver here. Here was the toggle switch, the power source. And off the electronic speed controller where the two outputs would go to the motor and an improvised initiator was connected in. And we're representing this as the lightbulb right here. But the improvised lightbulb would have been into the main charge, the low explosive.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: So when you say it would be into the main charge, meaning that --
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, this is just represented in the bag because it would be pretty messy in here otherwise. But anyway, this was placed inside the pot. You know, there was -- the tape was crossed over, you saw, in some of those pictures there, and then it was placed in the backpack. Into a backpack. You know, this was found at Watertown, and this is the mockup of what was found there out of a bag. But this is actually what the controller would look like.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: For the record -- one moment. Just for the record, you're holding up two transmitters. One appears to be a modified Flysky transmitter and one is an intact Flysky --
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, this is what it would have looked like where the pistol grip, the trigger control and the wheel for steering the car. That's the battery pack where it was cut off and placed underneath, and all these buttons here are gone, but the dials are still underneath it. So this was how that was found.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Now, just to clarify, the modified device you just held up, that's a mockup, not the original evidence that we saw --
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes, this is the mockup of the Flysky, what we found at the scene.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, could you put the pressure cooker into the backpack?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: I mean, it is pretty heavy.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Your Honor, I would ask for permission -- first, with regard to all of these, I'll move them in -- or make a motion to move them into evidence, but if I may ask to publish them in the backpack so that the jury can -- actually, maybe take it out of the backpack -- excuse me -- so the jury can actually see it close up.
MR. WATKINS: I object to actually admitting them. Passing them around, no problem.
THE COURT: I'll reserve on the admission, as we've discussed, but you may exhibit them.
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, if you would be so kind to pass around this device.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: You want the lid --
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Take the lid off.
(The exhibit is published to the jury.)
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, while the jury's looking at that, just to clarify, all of the powder that you have in these exemplars is inert and poses no danger from any of these devices?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
(The exhibit is published to the jurors.)
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, the configuration of the various components that are in the mockup, how did you arrive at that architecture given the fact that the devices that were used were actually exploded and you didn't have the original to model it after?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Well, like I said before, at the scene all the evidence that was collected, the damaged electronic speed controller, the Flysky, the battery parts and that really damaged toggle switch, to have this operate, it has to be plugged up in such a way that leads -- the power source goes to the electronic speed controller in this fashion, the toggle switch was wired up coming off one of the -- we found the inputs into the electronic speed controller so it would basically break the signal when there was an output to this improvised Christmas tree. So when you turn it on, where there's a slide switch here that initialized what we talked about, then it doesn't send an output to that light and it will trigger that light, it will flash. So there was an interruption, so a toggle switch was used to break that circuit momentarily until this initialized. And then this is in the off position right now as it stands, and they just have to go and turn it on so it will complete the circuit.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Okay. Thank you. With regard to the transmitter that was modified, with the absence of the throttle and the trigger like you demonstrated, what would happen when you turned that on?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: As I talked about before, the modification -- when they modified it from here, what would happen is when you turn this on, it would be like you were pressing this trigger full speed backwards, so there would be an output as soon as you turn on -- here's the power button, usually on the back. When you turn that on, it would send that output directly to the receiver, which then the electronic speed controller would interpret it and send it to the output where the improvised initiator was going to be.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And this is a Flysky transmitter and a Flysky receiver in this setup, correct?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes, that's correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Thank you. Can we move on to Exhibit 1569, which is the Scene B exemplar? Or I should ask: Is there anything else about this that you haven't described?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Everything that was from the scene that we gathered up is represented here in this mockup.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Thank you. Can we move on, then, to the Scene B exemplar?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Once again, there was a backpack that was concealing the device. Same-type pot, the Fagor. It had hobby fuse going into it as a second form of initiation if the R/C fusing system didn't work. Like we talked about, at the scene what was collected, there was a power source which is basically just another Sub-C pack power source for a hobby car. This was the electronic speed controller and this would be the receiver. And this electronic speed controller, you know, the slide switch to initialize in this position here. There were -- the two outputs that would normally go to the motor is going to the improvised initiator, same type. And the only difference is, you know, there was -- besides the BBs, there were these small steel nails that was embedded into the -- with the BBs.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: But the fragmentation sleeve, that's in the sealant against the interior walls of the pressure cooker?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Right. And we saw that with the red rosin paper again and the fragmentation, and then it was also -- had tape on it again consistent with Scene A.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Thank you.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Again, your Honor, I would ask to publish 1569, the Scene B exemplar.
THE COURT: All right.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: And as far as demonstration purposes, there was a transmitter that, you know, we purchased off of those receipts that we talked about, the transmitter, receiver, and I have an unmodified transmitter here today.
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: That's because the transmitter for the Scene B device was not actually located, correct?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That is correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: So you bought one that was -- married the receipt that we saw earlier?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Please publish the -- this device. If you can hand it to Juror No. 1.
(The exhibit is published to the jurors.)
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Now, significantly, Agent Knapp, there's no toggle switch on this device. Is that correct?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah. Like we talked about earlier, that once you initialized it, it didn't have enough output, or there was no current going to that improvised initiator, so there was none needed.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Thank you, Agent Knapp. If we could move on to Exhibit 1570. This is the Watertown evidence -- sorry -- Watertown mockups. Agent Knapp, let's first start with the pressure cooker device, Exhibit 1571. Can you explain the architecture of that mockup?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, it was a Fagor. There was cardboard -- circular cardboard found, that was burnt and charred, at the scene also. There was a toggle switch with wire found, basically a 9-volt battery. Like I said before, there was no improvised initiator attached to this, but there was a length of wire with just a simple flip up on-and-off toggle switch.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: None of the circuitry that we saw in the other two devices existed in the Watertown pressure cooker?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: No. And there was the same type of construction with the BBs, pink/red -- the pink rosin paper was found at the scene with the fragmentation.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And was there also an alternate fusing system?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Well, there were holes poked through here, through the cardboard which was damaged and burnt. And basically, hobby fuse, when it burns, it's going to go away. So the primary means of initiation would have been this hobby fuse, and you have that as a secondary type of initiation.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Okay. And how does this device compare in relative weight to the other two devices that the jury just saw?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Half the weight.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Fair enough. Thank you. Let's move on to the two pipe bomb exemplars, 1572. Agent Knapp, just one more question on that Watertown device as you're opening that bag. The pieces of the Watertown pressure cooker were more intact than those on Boylston Street. How would you attribute that? How would you explain that?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That is correct. I mean, pretty much the whole base of that pot was just crumbled and crushed. But as far as -- an explosion happened, but that could have been due to confinement. That was more than likely thrown and the lid probably was -- came un- -- I mean, we found no evidence of any tape around it. So if the lid did come unseated, you know, it's still intact and it's almost acting like a projectile. And it just basically violently flew in one direction, and I believe that was found embedded --
MR. WATKINS: I'm going to object, your Honor.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: -- in pictures --
THE COURT: That's all right. Overruled. Go ahead. You can continue.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: -- into a car.
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Thank you. Please move on to the pipe bombs.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: It's simple. Your loads are Home Depot 2-inch-diameter pipes. You can put any powder in, but basically it was fragmentation. And in some of the ones that did go off, you can see the circular impressions in some of the pieces that they also had fragmentation in the pipe. It was just a simple hobby fuse lighted and you throw it.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Now, there's some tape on the threads of the end caps. Is that --
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Right. I mean, usually -- yeah, we -- in our training we'll make what -- we use Vaseline basically so you cause no friction. A possible low explosive can ignite it. Like we read in that manual before, that Inspire, about be careful, you know, threads. So Teflon just to ease so there's no friction buildup between the threads.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And just speaking of tape, were there various tapes submitted as evidence in this investigation?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, there was numerous types of tape: black electrical tape, this Teflon tape, duct tape, clear packing tape. Just commonly available items seen over the years of being put in a device, like I'm taping up the hobby fuse or taping up wires together, but it's just available material used to construct a device.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And in addition to that tape, there's some electrical tape, it looks like, on both of these devices?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: When it came in, there was electrical tape on the initial -- or the actual devices, yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And each of these mockups represents a rendered-safe intact device?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That is correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: So we don't know exactly what the other pipe bombs that exploded may have looked like?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Right. They were just fragmentation, pieces of the pipe.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And is the elbow, 90-degree elbow pipe, similar in terms of construction?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, just they -- a 90-degree pipe.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Your Honor, I would ask to publish 1572.
THE COURT: Okay.
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: I'm sorry. "Publish" means to give it to the jury.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: The pot too?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: No, just those two -- the pipes; not the pot.
(The exhibit is published to the jurors.)
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: While they're doing that, let's set up the next one. Exhibit 1570 is the plastic bag of powder that you just placed on counsel table. If you wouldn't mind retrieving a piece of evidence in the Rubbermaid container.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: (Witness complies.)
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: You just picked up Exhibit 854 which was the -- well, what is it?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: This is the container that approximately three pounds of low explosives were recovered in, and it had -- in the lid it had a hole in it and it had three pieces of hobby fuse coming out of it.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: All right. And if you wouldn't mind just placing the -- 1570, the bag, into the container and holding it up?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: (Witness complies.)
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, if you would hold up Exhibit 854 containing Item 1570. Would you take off the lid just so the jury can get a sense of how much of that Rubbermaid container was filled.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: And of course, there was all the hobby fuse that was packed in here amongst the powder.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And was the hobby fuse lying on top of the powder?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And the hobby fuse itself has some explosive material in it. Is that correct?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And was the strand of hobby fuse sticking out through the top of that lid?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, there was three pieces.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Thank you. And, Agent Knapp, we're done showing the -- these exhibits to the jury. I just wanted to ask you to put that away, and then we'll do a demonstration of the exhibit 1568 and 1569, with the Court's permission.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: I'm seeking the Court's permission to do that demonstration.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Thank you.
THE COURT: I don't know what the demonstration entails. It's kind of a blank check.
(Laughter.)
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: So, Agent Knapp, if you would take the remote control transmitter for each of those mockups and perhaps resume the witness stand. And you place each of these devices either on the podium or I can hold one.
(Pause.)
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Like I said before --
THE COURT: Why don't we have a question.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Yeah, thank you.
BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Thank you. Agent Knapp, first of all, you've taken off the lid of Exhibits 1568 and 1569, correct?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes, correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And each of the -- each of those receivers for each of those radio-controlled devices has been bound to the respective transmitters. Is that accurate?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes, that's correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And how did you learn to do that?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Basically, R/C hobby model cars, there's instructions out there widely available, there's manual -- instruction manuals that come. And based on the evidence collected, as I said before, I put it into the appropriate configuration as the fusing system would have been in Scene A.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Do the instruction manuals for each of those devices also have the binding procedures?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: It's a simple process where you bind the receiver to the transmitter, you turn on the power on the receiver, and then there's a bind -- there's this little bind button up here that you press in and then you turn the power on, and then there's a blinking light. And then once it's bound, it stays solid. And then you remove the little binding plug and you put the plugs into the appropriate channel in the receiver and get ready to -- you know, if you had a hobby car, you would get ready to drive, steer it, move it.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And is the Flysky receiver bound to the Flysky transmitter that you brought?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: The modified, yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: The modified transmitter? And the Spektrum receiver is bound to the Spektrum exemplar that you had purchased as well?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That is correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: In your experience in making these mockups and testing them, was one transmitter capable of activating the other receiver?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: As I said, they use two different forms to communicate. Spektrum uses a digital sequencing and the Flysky uses sequencing hopping. So the transmitter and the receiver have to have that type of technology so they can communicate with each other. That has the digital sequencing and the Flysky has the frequency hopping.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: So they don't communicate?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: You described an arming procedure that's required for each of the receivers, for the receiver-electronic speed controller combination.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: But you have to initialize each one. Basically there's a little slide switch from the electronic speed control you turn on and it powers it up, and then it goes through its little sequence, and then it's waiting for the signal from the transmitter to receive an input.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And so can you position the Christmas tree light for each of these devices in a way that the jury can see whether the light turns on.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: (Witness complies.)
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Now, in the improvised explosive device, that Christmas tree light filament would be embedded in the explosive material. Is that right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: So now, if you can arm each of the devices and then resume the witness stand with the respective transmitters?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Okay.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: I'm sorry. Is there anything else that you need to describe about what you're doing?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: No. Basically, it's turned on. You can see there's power coming to it. And right now it's in the safe-arm position. So when you turn it on, it wouldn't get a little blink on the light. And if it was on -- do you see that blink -- that would cause the power to detonate it.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Agent Knapp, you're going to have to get back to a microphone.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: So I'm going to go to the safe arm -- I'm going to take it off the safe arm -- I'm going to put it on safe. It's initializing, and in a couple of seconds, and then I'm turning it on. Now all I have to do is press this button to turn the receiver on.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Okay. And you've pressed the modified Flysky transmitter and it's activated, the device, 1568, the Scene A mockup?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Now, please go on to 1569, the Scene B mockup.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Once again, there's a slide switch here. But we didn't know the configuration of this transmitter, the controller. But the slide switch is on and it's armed. And then you just have to put an input from this transmitter to it.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And you've depressed the transmitter in the exemplar, Spektrum transmitter, and it has activated the Christmas tree light on the 1569, Scene B mockup. Is that right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Now, you obviously did that here at close range. And you don't know the exact range of each of these devices. Is that right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: When you activated one of the transmitters, it did not activate the Christmas tree light on the other receiver. Is that correct?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: That's all I have, your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Watkins, do you want the witness there or on the stand?
MR. WATKINS: I would like to start off there.
THE COURT: Okay. Fine.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: Good afternoon, Agent Knapp.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Good afternoon.
MR. WATKINS: 1568 is this one, correct, from Scene A? I'm going to move this over to counsel table.
THE COURT: Mr. Watkins, you stay near the microphone too, please.
MR. WATKINS: I will. I know I have a soft voice.
THE COURT: It's not just for the room; it's for transmission to other rooms as well.
BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: Now, Agent Knapp, as I understand it, it's -- the two switches on here, right, this one has to be turned on. The problem is when this one turns on, this immediately does a little cycle that would light up the Christmas tree light and that would ignite, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. WATKINS: And that's why it needed this added feature of this arming switch, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's a safe-and-arm toggle switch.
MR. WATKINS: Safe-and-arm toggle switch. Because then it runs its cycle, you can put that switch on, and then it's ready to go, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: It's waiting for input from the transmitter.
MR. WATKINS: From the transmitter. Now, this battery pack here, this doesn't last forever. Like any other battery pack, you have to recharge it. It will lose power over time, correct?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. WATKINS: And not only will it lose power, but if it's on all the time, it will drain the battery. The battery will go dead, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Well, if you're not putting an input and you're running the motor and the battery is then being drained because you're speeding around on your hobby car.
MR. WATKINS: Correct. Or it's just the electronic speed controller takes a certain amount of energy itself, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: There's a little bit of energy. But not like taking it and driving the car on the motor.
MR. WATKINS: Of course. So in order for this to work, this has to be charged up. It has to have a charge in it, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. WATKINS: And then it would go into this pressure cooker pot. Now, I saw -- I think the jury saw there are actually two pieces of cardboard in each of these pressure cooker bombs, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Right.
MR. WATKINS: And that is consistent with what you found on the street at each scene, there were two kind of -- I mean, there were shards but you could identify two of these, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: There was -- yes, there was two. Well, there was cardboard, very fragmented, with duct tape around it of a circular nature, yes.
MR. WATKINS: And two pieces at each site, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Well, and then Watertown, I think there was three without duct tape on it.
MR. WATKINS: So you put both of these in. But you don't know what the order, for example, of these pieces of cardboard were in there, right?
MR. WATKINS: And indeed, this one could be on top and -- where did our lid go? There it is. Go on top like that?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Sure.
MR. WATKINS: So going back, then, to this arming switch, you could turn this on, but at some point when you're getting to use it, this safe arm switch is the last thing that's going to happen to make it operational, correct?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. WATKINS: Okay. So one would flip the switch and put it back in here and then put this down on here and close it up, and then all we could do is wait for the signal from the transmitter, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: If it was on, yes.
MR. WATKINS: So again, the last thing that actually went inside when I just did that was this piece of cardboard, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. WATKINS: I think I'm done here. If you could go back to the stand, I'll go back to my usual spot.
MR. WATKINS: I'm actually not getting any screens at this point.
THE COURT: No, you're not. What do you want, the computer?
MR. WATKINS: Yes, please. There we are.
BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: You talked a little bit about what your role became once the bombing happened on April 15th. You stayed down in Quantico, and part of what you did was intake evidence there, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah. I was down in Quantico, in the explosives unit, and the evidence started coming down to the laboratory.
MR. WATKINS: And so when that came in, you would identify -- or you would help identify it as maybe part of an explosive item that would be within your purview? In other words, items would come down, this might be involved with an explosive device, it goes to Agent Knapp -- or you would decide it goes to Agent Knapp in the explosives unit?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That was decided at -- once an explosive event or explosive case, it would come through our unit, and an examiner was assigned. And I was the examiner that was assigned to this case.
MR. WATKINS: And because there were -- I think you said really thousands of items of evidence that were tied to the explosive device, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes, there was over 1300 individual submissions of items that came in.
MR. WATKINS: And some of those had sub-items that went to hundreds of items, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: There was a lot, yes.
MR. WATKINS: I'm showing you --
MR. WATKINS: I think this is in evidence, your Honor, but perhaps it should just go to the witness to make sure.
MR. WATKINS: Do you recognize what is depicted on the screen?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Fragmented remains of cardboard.
MR. WATKINS: And that's identified as Q199?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. WATKINS: And was that one of the items that you listed in your report as being associated with the bombs?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct; it was listed in my report.
MR. WATKINS: And now, I do believe this is in evidence as part of 623 because I think I've seen it there, but we don't have sub numbers for that. I'm going to ask my colleagues if they could determine. Otherwise, I'll admit it separately.
THE COURT: It doesn't hurt to admit it separately.
MR. WATKINS: Then I would move for admission of Defendant's Exhibit 3093.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: No objection, your Honor.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3093 received into evidence.)
MR. WATKINS: While that's being shown on the screen, may I approach, please?
BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: You, in your report, identified this as fragments of cardboard collected at Scene A. Is that correct?
THE COURT: Are you getting the picture?
JUROR: No.
MR. WATKINS: Oh, I'm sorry.
THE COURT: Now? Okay. Sometimes there's a delay.
BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: Is that right, you identified a number of items?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: I've identified a lot of items, but I don't have my report available, so...
MR. WATKINS: Your report is 108 pages long?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. WATKINS: Did you -- I thought you told Mr. Chakravarty that you looked over your report before you came in today?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: I looked over the report previously.
MR. WATKINS: I'm sorry?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: I had looked over it previously, but not this morning or today.
MR. WATKINS: But just sitting here now, you know that cardboard came in, and that was analyzed and found to be part of one of the bombs?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. WATKINS: And you talked about the multidiscipline -- the different disciplinary areas within the FBI laboratory, right? You talked about fingerprint identification, you talked about chemistry, you talked about -- what else, firearms identification, I think, DNA? There's all kinds of different disciplines within the lab, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct. There are multiple disciplines within the laboratory.
MR. WATKINS: And part of what you do when you see something come in for analysis is to also help to determine where that should go next, in other words, whether it should go to another discipline either after you've seen it or after you've done your full analysis?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes. There's what we call an examination report where the evidence is flowing through the laboratory, what disciplines get certain particular pieces of items which will then eventually -- once those examiners do their examinations, then the evidence will be coming back over to the explosive unit, to myself, to analyze the bits and pieces of the parts.
MR. WATKINS: In the early stages of the Boston Marathon bombing case, all of the disciplines communicated with each other. There were daily meetings about the evidence, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Basically there was an exam plan started. And depending on what it was, it went to those examiners, and then it went to the next examiner, whatever discipline that was, and -- but there was other communication going on.
MR. WATKINS: And there were, indeed, daily meetings about the evidence and the -- what should be analyzed and how far people had gotten with their analysis on the Boston Marathon bombing case, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Right. That was a bigger picture -- I mean, the lab was doing its part, but then there was these daily meetings with our FBI headquarters and other FBI entities involved in this case.
MR. WATKINS: Ms. Clarke has helped me out. Can I refresh you with your report about Q199 came from?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Sure.
MR. WATKINS: It's on the computer here. So you could see the heading from your report. Don't read it, but I want to point out where you are. And you recognize that as something you would do on your report?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, the various Q items, right.
MR. WATKINS: Right. And then if you scroll down to the next page, we're looking for Q199. Yeah, there we go.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Right.
MR. WATKINS: So does that refresh your recollection where Q199 came from?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: From Scene A.
MR. WATKINS: And when you're talking about Scene A, that's the Boston Marathon bombing Scene A?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. WATKINS: So to get back to Q199, these shreds, they were sent to other disciplines for analysis also, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes, that's correct.
MR. WATKINS: The shreds from Q199 which was found at Scene A was sent for fingerprint analysis. Is that correct?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Objection, your Honor, to this line. Not to this question but to the --
THE COURT: Well, you can have this question.
BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: Did it get sent for analysis?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. WATKINS: Do you know whether positive results of a fingerprint analysis were done?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: Showing you the remains of the backpack that were found at Scene B, Boylston, marathon bombing, do you recognize that and do you recognize the Q number? It's hard to read, but I think Mr. Chakravarty put this up for you just before.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That looks like Q51?
MR. WATKINS: This would be Q11.
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Q11.
MR. WATKINS: Do you know what --
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Remains of a backpack.
MR. WATKINS: And inside of that backpack were remnants of pieces of paper?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yeah, correct.
MR. WATKINS: Do you know whether that was sent for fingerprint analysis?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes, that was sent for analysis.
MR. WATKINS: And do you know whether there were results obtained?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: Showing you a picture of Exhibit 974, do you recognize that as the lid recovered in Watertown that came to you for analysis?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. WATKINS: And that's the pressure cooker lid?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. WATKINS: Do you know whether that item was sent for fingerprint analysis?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: A lot of these items basically were sent out to the various disciplines. That one would have been sent out also looking for fingerprints.
MR. WATKINS: And the reason to send something out from an explosives point of view, a metal surface like this can capture fingerprints pretty easily, correct?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: The FBI has a protocol about what order things are to be analyzed in, a general protocol?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: If they're looking for trace, possibly DNA or latent fingerprints, that would -- depending on what we're looking for, a combination, it could go to latents first for visuals; come back if they're looking for trace evidence, hair or other things; or it might end up going to DNA to take a swab and a sample. It just all depends what's the evidence, what piece of -- what it is and then where it's going to go first.
MR. WATKINS: And those were the kinds of decisions that were being made at Quantico as each of these pieces of evidence came in?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: As it came into the lab and then examined, a plan was established. And evidence just kept coming in, and the various disciplines and examiners were getting this evidence and doing their examinations on it.
MR. WATKINS: Now, I want to move to the transmitters that you talked about as the fusing system. There was a lot of testing done on these particular transmitters, and you talked about people buying exemplars and things of that nature?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: We -- the explosion unit, we ended up purchasing these products, yes.
MR. WATKINS: That's what I'm getting at. It was a "we." It was a group effort; it wasn't you doing all of these particular things, right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: There were other examiners in our unit purchasing, and some individuals going out, looking for the type of pots that were used, yes.
MR. WATKINS: Now -- but they also did independent testing of the circuits and tried to make sure that -- well, they came to the conclusion that you reported here about these transmitters binding to these receivers, right?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Objection, your Honor. Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: And they issued a report, right, of their own about the transmitters and receivers?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Objection.
THE COURT: Let me see you at the side.
(Discussion at sidebar and out of the hearing of the jury:)
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: The government was restricted from incorporating the very same type of testimony that the defense is now attempting to elicit, but this is something beyond his expertise. He just simply looked at results of other -- the other disciplines, and in some cases he incorporated reference to the fact that other people had done their own independent tests in his report. But he didn't adopt the findings of all of those in order to make his assessment.
I mean, that would pull the sting out of whatever Mr. Watkins was going to do, had he been transparent about the strategy of first bringing it out on cross.
MR. WATKINS: No, I did it in a very evenhanded way. He testified on direct that he didn't know what the distance that each one of them could go on was. The report actually says, quite specifically, what the distance of each of the transmitter receiver pairs was.
That's all I was doing, was gearing up to do a kind of refresh recollection with him with these reports. And that's why I was asking about the reports. That's the one and only question.
THE COURT: He didn't testify to it.
MR. WATKINS: No. Mr. Chakravarty asked him "Do you know what the distance is" --
THE COURT: And he said no.
MR. WATKINS: He said, "I don't know," but he knows this report and he does know. There were a lot of things he did not know until he prepared for testimony today using those kinds of reports.
THE COURT: It looks like you're trying to cross-examine your own evidence. I mean, you want to get it in so you can criticize it.
MR. WATKINS: No.
THE COURT: I'm not following this.
MR. WATKINS: All I want to get in is the distance that -- one of the transmitters had a distance of 572 feet; the other one had 1100 feet. The evidence is that our client kind of raced away from the one scene, and it goes to his sophistication concerning, you know, what he knew about the particular item and its attributes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Any information about the range was not from this witness; it was from this other expert who was doing his own independent analysis. He didn't incorporate that into his findings and he didn't do it.
MR. WATKINS: That's not true. It is in his report. It is in his report.
MR. WEINREB: We have good reason to exclude it under 403 grounds because the purpose of this examination is to suggest that Tamerlan Tsarnaev could have detonated that second bomb, which the defense has no good-faith basis for suggesting because they know that it's not --
THE COURT: I don't know because he's already -- well, anyway.
MR. WATKINS: Your Honor, I just want to correct one thing. It is absolutely in his report. He does adopt the distances. It's in there.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Here's the report. It very well may be. It's 108 pages. If you want to find that.
THE COURT: The fact that it's in the report isn't a basis for admitting it, necessarily. You need something more than that. He testified on the subject and said that he doesn't know.
MR. WATKINS: And so I can refresh his recollection.
THE COURT: You could try to refresh his recollection, but that's not what you started to do. If you want to put the report in front of him and see if that refreshes his recollection --
MR. MELLIN: But, your Honor, the problem with this is there's no good-faith basis for what -- they're trying to argue that Tamerlan had both receivers -- or both transmitters, and that is the only reason they're raising this issue. They don't have a good-faith basis and they can't argue that.
MR. WEINREB: And this will just mislead and confuse the jury and it should be excluded under 403 grounds. It is a critical issue in the case. The defense knows it's not true. They have no good-faith basis for suggesting it. Introducing it will mislead and confuse the issues and, therefore, it should --
MS. CONRAD: Judge --
MR. WEINREB: -- be excluded on 403 grounds.
MS. CONRAD: -- if two prosecutors can speak, can two defense attorneys speak?
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MS. CONRAD: Thank you. First of all, the government -- and the Court has allowed the government to introduce in terms of whether it's his finding or not his finding, and experts rely on others' testing. And they've been allowed to introduce what he's learned from others, so it seems to me that that's fair ground.
Second of all, it's either impeachment or refresh your recollection.
Third of all, it seems to me whether or not we can address an issue that was specifically addressed on direct examination, which is the range of these -- it seems to me that's a no-brainer. We can. And what we're going to argue from it or not argue from it is for another day. I don't think the government can just put us off from addressing something that's relevant.
THE COURT: No, I think it's a fair Rule 403 question, but I don't know the answer. So give me something more about why there's no good-faith basis. I mean, somebody knows something to the opposite?
MR. WEINREB: Yes; the defendant.
MS. CONRAD: That's ridiculous. I mean, to say the defense can --
THE COURT: Keep your voice down.
MS. CONRAD: To say that -- I don't think we're there yet, first of all. But second of all, to say that the defense can't argue something that -- to which there exists -- as to which there is contrary evidence is ridiculous because, first of all, that's like saying that in an identification case if your client told you he was guilty, you can't argue mistaken identification. That's Defense 101. This also goes to the issue that the government claims that was Jahar's apartment.
THE COURT: Okay. I will exclude it on the 403 grounds.
MS. CONRAD: May I just have a clarification? 403 --
THE COURT: For the reasons argued by Mr. Weinreb.
MS. CONRAD: I don't understand.
(In open court:)
BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: I'm showing you what's been identified as Exhibit 1160-02. That is the receipt Mr. Chakravarty showed you for an order. Do you recall that?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. WATKINS: What is the date on that particular order? Oh, I'm sorry. This is not -- this is already in evidence? There. What is the date on that receipt?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: February 8th of 2013.
MR. WATKINS: And whose name is on the receipt for that R/C car that you have the exemplars from?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Tamerlan Tsarnaev.
MR. WATKINS: Showing you 1431 --
THE COURT: These are all in, right?
MR. WATKINS: Yes.
BY MR. WATKINS:
MR. WATKINS: -- which Mr. Chakravarty showed you on direct. Let me see if I can find the date on this one. Can you -- what is the date on that purchase?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: It's 4/8/13.
MR. WATKINS: And that is seven days before the Boston Marathon bombing?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: April 8th.
MR. WATKINS: And these are for parts that were related to the second Boston Marathon bombing, Scene 2?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: This was the Spektrum products, I believe.
MR. WATKINS: And I think you testified the Spektrum was related to Scene B, the second Boston Marathon bombing?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: That's correct.
MR. WATKINS: Mr. Chakravarty showed you Inspire magazine and the alarm clock pages from that. Do you recall that?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Yes.
MR. WATKINS: And there's no mention in Inspire magazine about radio-controlled cars as a fusing system. Is that right?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: The portion I read at, no.
MR. WATKINS: And what I think you've told us is that this is something that can be easily found out on the Internet by searches?
EDWARD S. KNAPP: Correct.
MR. WATKINS: Were you aware that Tamerlan Tsarnaev searched the Internet for radio-controlled cars in the months leading up to the Boston Marathon bombing?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained. Sustained.
And I remind the jury that unanswered questions produce no evidence.
MR. WATKINS: That's all I have, your Honor.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Nothing further.
THE COURT: Agent, thank you. You may step down.
(The witness is excused.)
MR. WEINREB: Your Honor, the United States calls Dr. Jennifer Hammers.
MR. MELLIN: Your Honor, if we may have a moment to move the screen for Dr. Hammers for the issues we raised before with the medical examiners?
THE COURT: Oh, move the screens? Yes. I'm sorry. I didn't know which screen you were referring to. Yes.
Again, as we did, there will be some autopsy photographs, and so the public monitors will not display them. The jury will see them. They are vivid photographs.