6.Cause Challenges, Juror Qualification, Proposed Hardship Excusals, and Weather-Adjusted Scheduling
198 linesTHE COURT: Okay. No broadcasting, right?
So we'll consider the jurors who we interviewed today starting with Number 204.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Your Honor, the government has a motion. This was -- I think maybe a first amongst the jurors -- the prospective jurors that we've seen in that it was not a particular response to any of the material questions in the questionnaire that gives pause to the government, but it's how she responded. She clearly had some anxiety. She was open and candid about that in the paper. When she sat down she was visibly extremely anxious. I think even the Court reminded her -- caused her to relax a little bit. But then as the questioning went on, time and time again she manifested both by delays and pauses in how she answered some of the questions, the anxiety that she was open with us that she had.
In this case where a lot of the evidence is going to be very disturbing and for a person who, you know, in her words, she doesn't like to think about those things -- another thing she said was it makes her nervous to even think about the things that happened to her brother in the context of -- it's somebody who's avoided that kind of assessment of some of the hideous issues that anybody will ever have to do strikes me that this is not the case that we should have this young woman, who might grow to have the confidence to be able to deliberate with a jury with at least 12 people in another case maybe down the line.
At this stage in her life the government doesn't feel confident that she would be able to do so in a constructive way that regardless of how she comes out and regardless of her feelings on the death penalty or guilt or innocence, it's just not constructive to the process that we're here for. So that's the reason for the cause.
MR. BRUCK: We disagree. Do you need to hear argument from us?
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. BRUCK: Well, I mean, people come in all, you know, different types. And she described her anxiety as something that tends to dispel when she gets used to the situation, which she did visibly. She's a young person who took very seriously some of the questions about the death penalty. She does -- I don't think it's disqualifying that somebody doesn't listen to the news. In this case it's a little bit of a relief, assuming that it's true, and I think it did seem to be true for her.
There's just -- I mean, she's a somewhat shy person, but I think the government's real objection was that she became very solemn when asked about the death penalty and expressed an appropriate degree of seriousness about -- that that would be a hard decision. And I think the government feels like, well, she's not a good juror for them so we'll move to disqualify her on the grounds that she's anxious.
But I just don't think that's warranted, and I think it's somewhat clear what the government really doesn't like about her, is that she's not a strong death penalty juror.
MS. CONRAD: May I just add one thing to that? What she said she was anxious about was speaking in front of other people like this.
THE COURT: I won't strike her for cause. I actually thought she did pretty well. Given her self-report about anxiety, I thought she did pretty well. I think some of our more sophisticated jurors today displayed nervousness as well. I mean, this is an unusual thing for people to be confronted with and in a forum they're not accustomed to. And it's kind of intimidating with all you people staring at them. I actually thought she did pretty well.
So I don't see her anxiety or her deportment here as a cause for excuse for cause. So we'll leave her in.
205?
MR. WEINREB: No motion.
MR. BRUCK: No motion except in the -- as against the background of our venue motion, our position of implied prejudice applies to -- you know, when we say we have no motion with respect to a juror, that obviously doesn't negate the fact that we think there is implied prejudice as to all jurors in this venue, so...
And I think this is a juror to which that would apply --
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. BRUCK: -- in particular. We don't think there's anything particular about him that is -- allows us to make a particularized motion.
THE COURT: I guess I'm not following this. You object to everybody.
MR. BRUCK: We do.
THE COURT: Okay. I understand that part. That's all you're reserving?
MR. BRUCK: Thank you.
THE COURT: Okay. All right. He's in.
I think Number 208 we've already assessed, as 211.
That brings us to 215.
MR. WEINREB: So, your Honor, the government moves to strike 215 as being prevented or substantially impaired from imposing a death sentence. The government's entitled to jurors who can, in fact, impose a sentence of death if the juror determines that it's the appropriate sentence, and there are numerous cases which hold that a -- if a juror is unable to unequivocally state that he or she can do so, that it is appropriate to strike them for cause.
This juror could not even once unequivocally state that she could do so. And, in fact, even in situations where a juror states unequivocally that he or she can do so but then seems to back away from that or contradict it, even that, the cases have held, is sufficient grounds for excluding them. Uttecht and many other cases from the courts of appeals from all of the circuits have held that.
So this juror under the, you know, well-settled prevailing standard is substantially impaired in her ability to impose the death penalty. When asked if she could actually do it having concluded that it was the appropriate sentence, the most she could ever muster is, "I'm not sure. I don't know. I want to say yes," but she could never actually say yes.
And, in fact, the very last time she was asked the question, which was by Mr. Bruck, I'm sure the Court recalls she hesitated for a very long time and really seemed to be searching her soul as to whether she could do it. And at the end she said, "I want to say yes but I don't know" or "I'm not sure."
And that's not a fair juror for the government. That's not a juror who can necessarily follow the law which is that she would be able to actually impose the death sentence. And although I understand, as the Court said earlier, that it puts jurors in a difficult spot to be asked to predict what they could or could not do in an unfamiliar situation, that's the whole nature of this process. Being on a jury where you have to impose a sentence of death on somebody is a possibility that is going to be unfamiliar to every juror. And so we have to be able to rely on their prediction of their own ability to do so or not. And this juror simply was not sure; she could not say yes.
THE COURT: The cases you refer to -- I'm guessing, I guess -- say it was not error to have excused a juror under those circumstances rather than saying a juror who answers thusly must be excused.
MR. WEINREB: Well, yes. But I would add the caveat that since the government can't appeal under those circumstances, it's logical that you are never going to see a circumstance saying that the Court erred by failing to grant a government's strike. But I do think that the -- although the Court is absolutely correct about that, that the cases -- if you -- the cases from Witherspoon and Witt on make it clear that the government is entitled -- and that's the word that the courts use, including the Supreme Court -- entitled to jurors who are not prevented or substantially impaired from imposing the death penalty.
So although a court will never be found to have erred by granting a defense strike, because it's impossible for the government to appeal that, I think that it is clear that it is not -- it is contrary to the law to seat a juror who is, in fact, unable to state equivocally that they can give consideration to it. Not actually do it in this particular case, but that if they determine that it was the appropriate sentence, actually impose a death sentence.
MR. BRUCK: Your Honor, when you were entertaining Mr. Weinreb's objection to one of my questions, you described the difficulty of a juror projecting into the future what he or she may or may not do in response to various eventualities, and I really thought you were talking about this juror, because this is exactly what happened. This juror was being more thoughtful, perhaps, than many others about the awesome nature of this decision and one about which she had never thought before. And she said many times over that she could make the decision that the death penalty was appropriate, but then the best that she or indeed anybody who's really being honest can say about, "Well, can you actually do it?" is, "Well, I don't know."
But she felt like she could, that she should. She went as far as she possibly could. And it just didn't seem at the time that we were -- we had an impaired juror; it seemed like this was a juror who was simply struggling with a hypothetical situation that she had never encountered before.
The test shouldn't be jurors who take this question seriously and struggle with it are ineligible to serve, and only the jurors who say, "Yeah, sure. No problem. I would do that," are the ones who exclusively sit on juries. That would -- is the sort of jury that Witherspoon forbids.
If this juror did not strike your Honor as substantially impaired, that ends the issue. The cases that Mr. Weinreb is referring to are the ones where the court is convinced that a juror is impaired, and then the question becomes does the record support the exercise of discretion? But if she did not strike you as an impaired juror, then there's nothing -- there's nothing really further to be concerned about. And I don't think she should have.
We had a Juror No. 60, we revisited her disqualification. The best she could say about whether she would put aside her opinion of guilt was that she thought so, and that was ruled to be sufficient. And this is similar. This is a juror who simply takes the decision very seriously. It's a new issue. She was struggling in front of our eyes to imagine herself sentencing somebody to death. It's the kind of juror that we ought to have in a capital case. And we don't think there's any basis for finding her substantially impaired. There is certainly no basis for requiring her disqualification.
THE COURT: Yeah, I'm going to deny the strike on this as well. I think that she was a very thoughtful juror. One of the issues, I probably said this already, is some jurors are so scrupulous about their answers that they over-doubt their own ability. I mean, I've found that as long as I've been trying cases. And I think this is a juror in that category. I think there's a difference between intellectually being unable to vote for the death penalty and not being sure here that at some future occasion on some body of evidence emotionally she will be able or unable to do it. I just think that's a very difficult question to assess.
And so I looked at other criteria or indicators, and I think her general intelligence, apparent intelligence and thoughtfulness, are the marks of a good juror. And the substantive answers she gave as well. I mean, her position was essentially, "I've got to hear everything before I tell you what I think." So I think she would be a good juror.
Number 223 we talked about.
That brings us to 229.
MR. MELLIN: No motion.
THE COURT: And we talked about 238.
So passed on to the next level would be 204, 205, 215, 229. Let me sum up -- this may already be in the record -- people who we may have either passed on beyond because -- I guess these are all people we haven't seen, is that right -- on the papers and determined no further voir dire was necessary. Let me just read the list so it's in the record in case it's otherwise ambiguous. That's for this -- I guess for --
MS. CLARKE: Where are you starting?
THE COURT: 201. I don't remember. Was that today or yesterday?
COURT STAFF: This is all today.
THE COURT: This is all today. So 201, 202, 203, 206, 207, 209, 210, 212, 213, 214, 217, 218, 220, 221, 222, 224, 225, 226, 227, 231, 232, 233, 235 -- and with respect to 235, I add that we also have a doctor's letter with respect to that particular juror -- 236 and 242.
MS. CLARKE: And I'm not sure what it was the Court was reading off because there were others that were excused that --
THE COURT: These are the ones that we didn't interview, I believe, that we were removed from the interview process. There are others in -- yes, there are others that we have seen that we've dealt with. I just wanted to record those people we did not actually interrogate.
Okay. So we look -- yeah. Did you have something?
MR. WEINREB: I was just wondering if we're going to move on now to the proposed agreed strikes.
THE COURT: If you're ready to do that, yeah.
MR. WEINREB: We're ready.
THE COURT: Okay. So where's my list? I don't know if I brought it in. I may have left it in the other room. I think I maybe did.
Did you add any?
MS. CLARKE: Yes. 188, your Honor, was a carryover.
THE COURT: What's the -- can you just highlight the --
MS. CLARKE: He's -- I think it was hardship that we agreed on. I don't have the thing in front of me. I just keep carrying that number forward until he's coming back.
Do you have it?
THE COURT: Yeah, well, I see his Question 10 was his concern about discontinuation of health insurance.
MS. CLARKE: Yes.
THE COURT: Yeah. No, I don't have any issue with that.
MS. CLARKE: And of the list that the Court provided, I think we're all in agreement except for 244.
THE COURT: All right. I don't think I have it here. I'll look at it.
Who thinks it should be and who thinks it shouldn't be?
MR. WEINREB: We would agree to strike 244.
MS. CLARKE: We thought we should ask a little more about the hardship.
MR. BRUCK: This is the homesteader with chickens.
THE COURT: Well, if I recall, she said she had to feed the chickens three times a day.
MR. WEINREB: Yes.
THE COURT: That's what caught my eye.
MR. BRUCK: Having raised chickens, I can tell you they don't need that level of attention.
THE COURT: You had neglected chickens, I guess.
(Laughter.)
MR. WEINREB: I was looking to a very entertaining voir dire.
MR. BRUCK: If you can keep it under 20 minutes of back-and-forth questions about chickens --
MS. CLARKE: Your Honor, her husband is a senior marketing executive, and we just thought it would be worth inquiring.
THE COURT: I'll look at it.
MR. WEINREB: We would also add 219 as a proposed strike for tomorrow on the grounds of hardship.
MS. CLARKE: 219's gone.
THE COURT: We passed 219.
Oh, I remember her. Yeah, she was supposed to be here today and didn't, and she has --
MS. CLARKE: Is she the carryover?
MR. WEINREB: She's the single mother with three kids.
THE COURT: No, there was something else that I saw about her.
MS. CLARKE: Oh, do you know what?
MR. WEINREB: She said she was unable to set aside her opinions about the defendant's guilt.
MS. CLARKE: Yeah, I thought 219 was gone but...
MR. WEINREB: She's possibly unemployed at this point.
MS. CLARKE: We don't see a hardship. There was a hearing loss on the right side.
THE COURT: I know I had her. I think I left it in my office because I was expecting her tomorrow. I think I put it up there. So where are we? There's not an agreement on her?
MS. CLARKE: Right.
MR. WEINREB: Right.
THE COURT: Then we'll bring her in.
Okay. So in addition to --
MR. WEINREB: I'm sorry, your Honor. We propose one other, which is 249.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. CLARKE: 249 is gone.
JAMES MCALEAR: She has been excused.
MR. WEINREB: 249 has been excused? Okay. Okay. So we're prepared to move ahead and consider who -- the proposed agreed strikes to the backfilled jurors as well, if the defense is ready and the Court is ready. If you want to wait until Friday afternoon.
THE COURT: Let me get tomorrow first.
MR. WEINREB: Okay.
THE COURT: So we have the numbers, then, on the sheet that we prepared, which are two, four, seven, and then there's a question about one of them, 244, which I will look at.
MS. CLARKE: Okay.
THE COURT: So in addition to those seven --
MR. WEINREB: Perhaps Mr. McAlear can tell us how many are left at this point.
THE COURT: Yeah, okay.
Well, did you have somebody in addition to the ones I suggested? I know you wanted one out, which is 244, but did you have any additional?
MS. CLARKE: One in.
MR. BRUCK: One off the list.
THE COURT: Yeah, I'm sorry. It's a two-way street and we're going in opposite directions.
MS. CLARKE: I feel it.
(Laughter.)
THE COURT: Are there additional proposed excuses from tomorrow's group?
MS. CLARKE: Not that we had a chance to --
THE COURT: All right. So the range of decision for this is these seven or six of these seven. Is that right? Excluding 244?
MS. CLARKE: Right.
MR. WEINREB: That's right.
THE COURT: All right. So we'll resolve that.
MS. CLARKE: We reserve the right, of course, to change our minds -- no, only kidding.
THE COURT: It's a judicial privilege.
(Laughter.)
THE COURT: So then -- this basically, the long list that you see here, basically exhausts Panel B; that is, we've gone through to the end of Panel B for these people and propose these. So if you have a response now, that would be great. I mean, we could start assembling next week because it would help us to the extent we have to backfill for Monday, we could begin do that.
MS. CLARKE: We've only had a chance, really, to look through 387, but we can tell you on those. And we can do the others, you know --
THE COURT: Okay. So that will give us a start anyway. So through 387.
MS. CLARKE: Right. We thought that the Court should still look at 311 and 358 -- or bring them in, 311 and 358. The others we were in agreement through 387.
THE COURT: 311, 358?
MS. CLARKE: Right. And we just haven't looked at the remainder, Judge.
MR. WEINREB: We agree with all of them.
THE COURT: All right. I'll look at 311 and 358.
MR. WEINREB: I'm sorry. Except for 414.
THE COURT: We weren't going beyond 387 for that one, but I could get the government's answer if you've done them all the way down to the bottom.
MR. WEINREB: We have. And we would agree with all of them except for 414, I believe just said with respect to hardship, children and financial issues.
THE COURT: 414?
MR. WEINREB: Yeah. So it was a little unclear what that meant.
THE COURT: All right. So you can tell us either late today or tomorrow morning about the rest.
So the --
MR. WEINREB: I'm sorry, Judge. Before we move on, would you like our proposals for additional strikes within the range that the Court's considering, 280 to 387, because we identified two others that seem to fit the Court's criteria for hardship strikes.
THE COURT: Oh, okay. Yes. Okay.
MR. WEINREB: So we believe 283 is a full-time student, wasn't on the Court's list.
THE COURT: Is that the one we had a question about? I don't know.
COURT STAFF: I'm not sure.
THE COURT: Do you know -- there was one, it was ambiguous. He didn't tell us he was a student in Question 26; he said it in Question 27. I don't know if that's the one you're talking about. Anyway, I'll just take the numbers.
MR. WEINREB: He identified himself as a computer science grad student at MIT.
THE COURT: Okay. All right.
MR. WEINREB: And then the other one was 290 who said that -- the juror said had ride problems.
THE COURT: Is that the cook from the Cape?
MR. WEINREB: Yes, the cook from the Cape.
MS. CLARKE: Good, I'll remember.
MR. WEINREB: I think for a three- or four-month trial having to come up from the Cape is different from a one-week trial.
THE COURT: I'm not going to agree to that general proposition but --
MR. WEINREB: Okay.
THE COURT: -- I'll look at it.
I think I toyed with taking him out. I thought we should talk to him. I think that was my reaction. That's why I know who you're talking about. So I may be inclined to leave him in.
MR. BRUCK: Is that 283 or 290?
THE COURT: That was 290.
MR. WEINREB: 290.
THE COURT: So does the defense have any -- we talked about some of mine that you thought should not be excused. Do you have additional ones --
MS. CLARKE: We haven't looked at it for that.
THE COURT: Okay. But they would -- those would only be joint ones anyway.
MS. CLARKE: Right.
THE COURT: Right. So I'm not interested in those at this point. Okay.
MS. CLARKE: So who would we have tomorrow?
MR. WEINREB: Only Jim can tell us that.
THE COURT: What was our last number today?
MS. CLARKE: We struck 242.
THE COURT: The next number after 242, whatever it is, that hasn't been excused. I don't know. And it would go --
JAMES MCALEAR: Yeah.
THE COURT: -- I don't know that we have the last -- do you have the last number?
COURT STAFF: We start at 243.
JAMES MCALEAR: If we go to 276, it's more than 20. So I just want to know how many you wanted me to bring in.
MS. CLARKE: Because we start with 219.
JAMES MCALEAR: 219 is number one; 242 would be number two.
THE COURT: Why would you -- and you're assuming these, excused?
JAMES MCALEAR: Yes. Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. And that would get -- 20 would bring us to where?
JAMES MCALEAR: Twenty would get us to 274.
THE COURT: Okay. Let's do that. 274 of --
But we agreed on 188, who was going to come tomorrow, he'll not come? Okay.
JAMES MCALEAR: That's right.
THE COURT: I don't know what the weather is going to be tomorrow. There's talk about a storm.
MR. WEINREB: A few inches of snow, they said.
THE COURT: It comes in the morning when people will be driving?
MR. WEINREB: Yes. It starts after midnight.
MS. CLARKE: Is the CDA going to vote to stay home?
MR. WEINREB: Boston is safe. What's a few inches of snow?
MS. CLARKE: I know. Ms. Conrad said it's a dusting, but I think she's learned --
MR. WEINREB: Unfortunately, there's another storm brewing for Sunday night.
THE COURT: I guess I'm inclined to soldier on because this is going to happen every week but -- we can't go by the court's generic rule of the Boston Public Schools. It's too imprecise for our purposes, I think. We have a manageable number of jurors that can be contacted even individually, if they had to be, to say don't come.
MS. CLARKE: Should we start later?
THE COURT: We probably will inevitably, but -- I guess what it does raise is whether we should try to have as many as 20. Maybe we should reduce it to 15 or so.
MS. CLARKE: Right.
MR. WEINREB: Well, it might make more sense to go the other way, assume that some aren't going to make it, or some aren't going to make it until the afternoon, and start in the morning.
THE COURT: Do you have the towns that the people would be coming from?
JAMES MCALEAR: I do.
THE COURT: You do?
JAMES MCALEAR: 219 is New Bedford. She had problems coming in today. That does not include any snow on the ground, as far as I know. 243, Stoughton; Pepperell; Lawrence; Stoneham; Everett; Boston; Fairhaven.
THE COURT: Okay. I get the idea.
(Laughter.)
MS. CLARKE: Let's bring in ten and start at noon.
MR. WEINREB: What random distant towns.
THE COURT: I don't know. What are your views?
MR. BRUCK: Bring in ten and start at ten or ten-thirty?
JAMES MCALEAR: Whatever you guys decide here, I'm still telling the jurors eight o'clock. I'm down there; we're down there. We have jurors who wander in at eight-thirty. You know, what I experienced as far as traffic out front this morning, jurors had a hard time coming in later; for example, of the two jurors that we were waiting on, they got here 30 minutes before they actually walked through the door, but the parking and the traffic change from what they were -- experienced on the 5th just -- they didn't know where to go.
THE COURT: Do you know from paying parking tickets -- do you pay their parking expenses on a daily basis for them? How do they get reimbursed for parking?
JAMES MCALEAR: We reimburse them --
THE COURT: Here's what I'm getting at: Do you know where they're parking?
JAMES MCALEAR: Yes.
THE COURT: Do you know where they're parking?
JAMES MCALEAR: Vertex, for the most part, jurors who are coming in, this group, because there's only 20 of them, and there's plenty of parking.
THE COURT: There's enough room there? Okay.
JAMES MCALEAR: The first three days they were all over the place.
MR. WEINREB: I don't know if this would be a welcome decision or not, but having driven in this morning and having gone in the same traffic, the two lots that are on the street when you get off the exit from the Pike for Seaport Boulevard -- you pass two lots on your way to Northern Avenue. That -- it was right there at that intersection that you have to sit for 20 minutes before you could take that left turn.
If people park in those lots, they could shave 20 minutes off their commute because then they just walk to the lot around the corner to the courthouse.
JAMES MCALEAR: Correct.
MR. WEINREB: I don't know if that's something that makes sense to propose to the jurors. I was tempted to do it and I have a spot in the Vertex lot.
JAMES MCALEAR: We've done it a couple of times and told them to park down there, and what happens is we tell the wrong person and then they get lost and -- a lot of these people don't come in to Boston at all, so they follow the directions that are on their thing to the law, and that takes them right to the Vertex building and they're right next door, and most of our jurors feel comfortable with that.
I understand your suggestion. The problem is it's not the easiest walk from that parking lot if you don't know where you're going because you have to cut in through the Gather walkway, and if you don't know where that is, you're --
MR. WEINREB: Right. Would it make sense to summon in all 20 and then whoever gets here by a certain amount of time or -- swear them and --
MS. CLARKE: That's unfair.
THE COURT: Yeah, I don't want to engineer absences. That's my problem with that.
MR. WEINREB: I'm not saying exclude the next till the next day, just till later in the day.
MS. CLARKE: Maybe we're just safe to go with ten and see where we end up.
I mean, for those people way out, is this even cleared up enough, what we've already got on the ground?
THE COURT: That's going to vary by locality, I think.
MR. WEINREB: Having driven the roads this morning, I don't think that's the issue.
THE COURT: Certainly not the main roads. Being a Bostonian, it's the side roads that are the real problem.
Why don't we do a dozen and just see what happens. And they'll come in when they're -- you know, they'll be told to come in at the usual time, and some will, some won't, and we'll just get them here.
JAMES MCALEAR: Okay.
THE COURT: All right? Okay. Thanks.
MS. CLARKE: Thank you, Judge.
(The Court exits the courtroom and the proceedings adjourned at 3:42 p.m.)