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2015 Federal TrialtranscripttranscriptMichelle Gamble — Cross/Redirect/Recross (Part 2) - Day 41 - 2015 Federal TrialMichelle Gamble’s cross-examination and follow-up questioning addressed photograph timing, omissions from her location diagram, and movement around the explosions. Her testimony concluded before the morning recess.
Aloke ChakravartyNadine PellegriniWilliam D. WeinrebMiriam ConradTimothy G. WatkinsGeorge A. O'Toole Jr.Michelle GambleMS. CONRADMichelle GambleMR. WEINREBTHE COURTMR. CHAKRAVARTYMR. WATKINSMS. PELLEGRINICourt Clerkcrosssidebarredirectrecross
2015 Federal Trial/Day 41/March 30, 2015
8 pages·4 witnesses·2,554 lines
The government rested after medical testimony about Lingzi Lu and Martin Richard and examination of bombing-scene imagery. The defense presented search evidence and digital-record analysis, with witnesses acknowledging limits on timing and location conclusions. The Rule 29 motion and proposed defense evidence remained unresolved.
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CrossCrossCross-Examination - Michelle Gamble Michelle Gamble Miriam Conrad

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: Good morning.

MICHELLE GAMBLE: Good morning.

MS. CONRAD: I'm Miriam Conrad. I'm one of the lawyers for Mr. Tsarnaev. In addition to your duties with respect to photography at the scene, you also participated in some of the searches that were conducted in this case, correct?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: I did, yes.

MR. WEINREB: Objection, your Honor. Outside the scope of direct examination.

THE COURT: Sounds it.

MS. CONRAD: Your Honor, may we approach?

THE COURT: All right.

sidebarsidebarSearch Evidence Beyond Direct Examination

(Discussion at sidebar and out of the hearing of the jury:)

MS. CONRAD: Your Honor, I thought we had an agreement with the government that we would be able to offer exhibits seized at 410 Norfolk on May 5, 2013, by this witness. You know, we'll have to call them back, I guess, if the government has changed its mind about that, but I thought we had an agreement. I had asked Mr. Chakravarty to make a number of exhibits available; he indicated that he would do so. You know, we determined this was the appropriate witness.

THE COURT: What are the exhibits?

MS. CONRAD: They're a number of items that were found during the May 5th search. One is a wiring book that was found under the living room couch. We have photographs of that and we asked the government to produce it. It was tested for fingerprints at the FBI lab and found to bear the fingerprints of Tamerlan Tsarnaev. We also -- there were a number of boxes of plastic gloves and I believe also some face masks.

Those are the only items I was going to go into. It was going to be very brief.

MR. CHAKRAVARTY: So Ms. Conrad did ask for those items to be available. We made them available. She proposed whether they could come in through Ms. Gamble. We did not agree to have Ms. Gamble necessarily be the witness to have them come in. She is competent to testify about what happened during that search however.

THE COURT: Was she present?

MR. CHAKRAVARTY: She was present. She was the photographer on the subsequent search, which I believe was a week and a half after the initial search.

The parties are in the process of crafting a stipulation, I think, with regards to a number of fingerprints all throughout 410 Norfolk Street. A fingerprint on a wiring book would somehow suggest -- which this witness could not testify to. She could just testify to seeing the wiring book. The fingerprint itself would not come in through this witness. So the relevance of the wiring book seems to be lacking absent having the fingerprint.

To the extent that we offered the fact that the volume of fingerprints -- of Tamerlan Tsarnaev's fingerprints were found on a variety of objects around the house, that is not going to be controversial. It's selecting this book to be introduced, especially through this witness who could not testify to the fingerprint, and then also to suggest that there are gloves and masks in there, somehow suggesting Tamerlan was either donning these without any fingerprints at all, as opposed to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev -- those also don't seem to be particularly relevant and could confuse the jury into thinking somehow this is -- they need to be figuring out why there are fingerprints or other evidence available.

MS. CONRAD: Your Honor, first of all, it's a link in the chain. First we put in the book and then we put in the fingerprints. The other thing I was going to ask about --

THE COURT: Where would the fingerprint evidence come from? From whom?

MS. CONRAD: It would either be a stipulation or we would offer the lab report of Elena Graff. It's more Ms. Clarke's department than it's my department. We're trying to work out a stipulation with the government. The first step is just, "You found this?" and where it was. It was sent to the lab. That's all I was going to ask about the book.

The second thing is, I was going to ask her about -- she participated in the search of Mr. Tsarnaev's property down at UMass Dartmouth in which she was also one of the searching agents and she kept a log, and there were vacuum samples taken at some point.

THE COURT: Okay. So it seems to me that is all admissible by the defense. The question is does it come now or do we have the witness re-called to do it?

MR. WEINREB: It is completely outside the scope of direct examination.

THE COURT: You're right. It is.

MR. WEINREB: We would prefer them to directly examine their own witness.

THE COURT: All right.

MS. CONRAD: I thought we had --

CrossCrossCross-Examination - Michelle Gamble Michelle Gamble Miriam Conrad

(In open court:)

MS. CONRAD: May I just get organized for a minute? I also seem to have lost Mr. Watkins, who I'm relying on for some of these exhibits.

Actually, may I have on the screen, please -- is it 1580, whichever the chalk was.

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: Now, you said that you were asked to determine where certain individuals were, correct?

MS. CONRAD: And you were asked to determine where they were at what time?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: Everybody that's in that graphic was in there from -- the first photograph that I looked at was 2:37 with the exception of Tsarnaev.

MS. CONRAD: Well, that doesn't really answer my question. You depict in here -- you say, "Where the bomb went off." So is this meant to depict where everyone was at the time of the second explosion?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: This is a minute before the bomb went off.

MS. CONRAD: And a minute before the bomb went off. So that would be 2:48 p.m., correct?

MS. CONRAD: So not at the time of the phone call that you testified about occurring at 2:49?

MS. CONRAD: And so, in fact, Mr. Tsarnaev was not standing right next to the backpack at the time of the second explosion, right?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: When the explosion went off?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: No, he was walking down the street.

MS. CONRAD: Now, may I have, Mr. Bruemmer, 1172, please.

THE COURT: Is this in evidence?

MS. CONRAD: Yes, it's the government's exhibit.

And could we enlarge that, please.

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: Now, you're not a cell phone expert, I take it?

MS. CONRAD: And so where it says "duration" here, 19 seconds for the 2:49 p.m., are you aware that that's actually the time from when the call is first dialed by the caller?

MS. CONRAD: It's not actually the time or the duration of the conversation itself.

MICHELLE GAMBLE: (Nonverbal response.)

MS. CONRAD: Could I get a verbal response, please?

MS. CONRAD: So looking at this, you don't know how long either the 2:49 or 2:51 p.m. conversations were, right?

MS. CONRAD: And -- but you do know from looking at the video that it appears that the conversation that you see on that video lasted about 19 seconds, the conversation itself?

MS. CONRAD: And would it be fair to say that the duration in terms of cell tower engagement would probably be longer than that?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: I don't know the answer to that.

MS. CONRAD: Could I please --

MS. CONRAD: Now, the conversation that you see on that video occurred closer in time to the second -- excuse me -- to the first explosion than the 2:48 photograph that Mr. Weinreb just showed you. I think it was Exhibit 1575.

MS. CONRAD: But you based your chalk that you -- or your diagram on the 1575 photo. Is that right?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: I based that off of several photos.

MS. CONRAD: Okay. So let's just take a look at some of those photos, if we could.

MS. CONRAD: If we could have, Mr. Watkins, what's been marked for identification as Exhibit 3146, just for the witness.

And that would be off Mr. Watkins' laptop, please, Mr. Lyness.

THE COURT: Well, the podium or is it the table?

MS. CONRAD: I don't trust myself. Mr. Watkins, please.

MR. WATKINS: It's the podium.

MS. CONRAD: It's the podium cart. We're going to share.

THE COURT: There it is.

MR. WATKINS: That's for the witness?

MS. CONRAD: Just for the witness.

MR. WATKINS: What number?

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: Okay. And you've seen this photograph before, right?

MS. CONRAD: In fact, it's, I think, previously marked -- I'm not sure if it was admitted -- as Government Exhibit 675-5, if Mr. Bruemmer wouldn't mind calling that up, which is a close-up of that.

MS. CONRAD: Mr. Bruemmer, if you could focus on the upper right-hand image.

MS. CONRAD: And you've seen that photograph before?

MS. CONRAD: And that comes from D108, which is the same image that we just had up on the screen over here, but this is cropped, right?

MS. CONRAD: Enlarged and cropped?

MS. CONRAD: And you know that the metadata for that photograph shows it's at 2:49 p.m., correct?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: I believe it is 2:48 unless that's a different photo from the one previously brought up.

MR. WEINREB: Objection. I would ask the witness not to speculate. She answered the question.

MS. CONRAD: We'll get the metadata up.

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: But would you agree with me that that's a zoomed-in version of what Mr. Watkins just showed you marked as Defendant's Exhibit 3146?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: Can you pull up that photograph again?

MS. CONRAD: I can switch back over, sure.

MS. CONRAD: I would offer 3146.

THE COURT: Any objection?

MR. WEINREB: No objection.

(Defense Exhibit No. 3146 received into evidence.)

MS. CONRAD: And, Mr. Watkins, if we could pull up the metadata for that image.

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: And you know what metadata is, right?

MS. CONRAD: I'm sorry, could you just --

MR. WEINREB: Your Honor, I don't know why this is in front of the jury right now. It's not in evidence.

MS. CONRAD: Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean that to be in front of the jury. I apologize.

THE COURT: All right.

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: And metadata is the time and the information that's recorded internally in the camera, right?

MS. CONRAD: And you examined the metadata for some of these images, or all of these images, correct?

MS. CONRAD: And would you agree with me that the metadata for this image which has just been introduced as 3146 shows the time --

MR. WEINREB: Objection, your Honor. There's no foundation that she actually has memorized the metadata for this image.

THE COURT: Overruled.

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: The metadata shows that that photo was taken at 2:49 p.m., correct?

MS. CONRAD: And that's closer in time to the first explosion than the photograph that I think was offered as 1575, right?

MS. CONRAD: And so, Mr. Watkins, if we could just zoom in, please, on 3146, and particularly in the area surrounding the tree and Mr. Tsarnaev. Could you move it over just a little bit to the right, please. Okay.

MS. CONRAD: So in that photograph do you see that Mr. Tsarnaev is some distance to the right of that tree?

MS. CONRAD: And do you see that there are one, two, three, four people in front of him, correct?

MS. CONRAD: And you did not include any of those people on the chalk that you prepared?

MS. CONRAD: And is that because you weren't asked to by the prosecution?

MS. CONRAD: Were you asked to determine where the --

MS. CONRAD: Actually, Mr. Watkins, can you just expand the view we're seeing there slightly to the left? Just right about where we see that woman running. Yeah, that's good.

MS. CONRAD: Okay. So you didn't put any of the people to the right of Martin Richard in your diagram, right?

MS. CONRAD: And again, that was because the prosecution asked you not to. Is that right?

MS. CONRAD: And the -- you know from the video of the Boston -- the timeline video that I think was Exhibit 24 -- maybe 22 -- excuse me -- that Mr. Weinreb showed you --

MS. CONRAD: -- that it appeared -- there's no exact point where you can say you see Mr. Tsarnaev put the backpack down, correct?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: In that video?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: I'm not sure.

MS. CONRAD: Well, in the Forum video there appears to be a point where at least he puts the backpack down at about 2:45, right?

MS. CONRAD: I'm sorry. I need a yes-or-no answer, please.

MS. CONRAD: Thanks. So I just want to show you -- and did you do a similar chalk to show where the individuals were at that moment?

MS. CONRAD: You weren't asked to?

MS. CONRAD: And I just want to --

MS. CONRAD: Can I have the cord back? I think this is 22 in evidence. So if we could have this for the jury as well. Here we go.

MS. CONRAD: So this is starting at about 2:45 p.m., right?

MS. CONRAD: Okay. And you see Mr. Tsarnaev coming down the street, right?

MS. CONRAD: And you see him stop behind that tree and a little bit to the left of it as you face it, correct?

MS. CONRAD: And did you see him put the backpack down?

MS. CONRAD: And that was right around 2:45?

MS. CONRAD: And did you look at any photographs to indicate where the individuals were depicted at 2:45?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: I looked at several photographs, the first one being at 2:37; several photographs after that I believe at 2:47 -- I'm sorry -- the first one was 2:37, 2:47, 2:48. The people that are indicated in that graph did not move at all from photo to photo.

MS. CONRAD: But there are other people in that area, correct?

MS. CONRAD: And there are other people in the direct, immediate vicinity of Mr. Tsarnaev, correct?

MS. CONRAD: And so showing you, for example, what's been marked for identification --

MS. CONRAD: Just for the witness as Exhibit 3137.

Can we zoom in, please?

MS. CONRAD: And the metadata on this image is also 2:48 p.m., correct?

MS. CONRAD: And again, you see a number of people in front of Mr. Tsarnaev, right?

MS. CONRAD: And you left them out of the chalk?

MS. CONRAD: At the direction of the government?

MS. CONRAD: And could I now display for the witness -- I believe this is not -- this is a government exhibit but not in evidence. Oh, I'm sorry. Can we zoom in on that?

And I would offer this, your Honor.

MR. WEINREB: I believe it's already in evidence.

THE COURT: As a different number or --

MS. PELLEGRINI: A different number, your Honor.

MR. WEINREB: In that case, no objection.

THE COURT: Yeah, we'll use the defense number.

MS. CONRAD: I'm sorry. I don't know if the jury saw that when I was showing it.

THE COURT: They are now.

(Defense Exhibit No. 3137 received into evidence.)

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: Okay. So that photo was taken at 2:48 p.m.?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: I believe so.

MS. CONRAD: And again, you see in front of Mr. Tsarnaev -- can you just count, starting right to left, the number of people you see?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: One, two, three.

MS. CONRAD: And you also see some people in the background --

MS. CONRAD: -- walking by, right?

MS. CONRAD: Okay. And again, you left all of those people out, right?

MS. CONRAD: And you even left Bill Richard out, right?

MS. CONRAD: Of your --

MICHELLE GAMBLE: I'm sorry. Yes, I did.

MS. CONRAD: And again, that was at the direction of the government?

MS. CONRAD: And showing you what's been marked for identification -- well, marked by the government but not offered --

MS. CONRAD: And this is just for the witness, please.

MS. CONRAD: -- Exhibit 1492, do you recognize this image?

MS. CONRAD: Did you prepare that chalk as well?

MS. CONRAD: I would offer this, your Honor.

MR. WEINREB: No objection.

(Defense Exhibit No. 1492 received into evidence.)

THE COURT: Well, okay. It's a chalk, but you're offering it as an exhibit?

MS. CONRAD: I'm offering it as an exhibit, yes.

MS. CONRAD: Thank you. May it be published?

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: And this is an image -- and you drew those lines in and put those names in?

MS. CONRAD: And in this picture which shows the Forum timestamp of 14:49:36, this is immediately after the first blast, correct?

MS. CONRAD: And you identified where members of the Richard family were standing in this photograph, right?

MS. CONRAD: And do you see Mr. Tsarnaev in this photograph?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: If you can zoom in more, I probably could find him.

MS. CONRAD: It would be further up to the upper right-hand --

MICHELLE GAMBLE: Yeah, the top of the screen.

MS. CONRAD: The upper right-hand corner.

MICHELLE GAMBLE: You have to go further up. I believe he's right in --

MS. CONRAD: Can you circle where you see him?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: I believe he's right around this location here

(indicating).

MS. CONRAD: Okay. So at that point he has walked away, right?

MS. CONRAD: So the chalk that you did does not show where he was at the time even of the first blast, right?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: Say -- I'm sorry. Say that again?

MS. CONRAD: The chalk that was introduced during your direct examination does not show where he was even at the time of the first blast, correct?

MS. CONRAD: And, in fact -- strike that. And this was, of course, before the second bomb exploded, correct?

MS. CONRAD: And at the time the second bomb exploded, Mr. Tsarnaev is not visible in the Forum video, correct?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: He is at the top of it. This is the still right before the bomb goes off.

MS. CONRAD: Okay. So he was actually pretty close by at that time?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: I wouldn't know the approximate distance.

MS. CONRAD: You haven't measured the distances in that area?

MS. CONRAD: You were involved in evidence collection?

MS. CONRAD: You marked the location of items?

MS. CONRAD: Is it fair to say you spent a lot of time on Boylston Street --

MS. CONRAD: -- during the immediate aftermath of the bombing?

MS. CONRAD: And you didn't take note of the distances?

MS. CONRAD: May I just have one moment, please?

(Counsel confer off the record.)

MS. CONRAD: All right. Can we just go back to the timeline video? Unfortunately, I'm going to have to borrow the cable back from Mr. Watkins.

(Pause.)

MS. CONRAD: So this is the Forum video at 14:49:11, correct?

MS. CONRAD: This is right after Mr. Tsarnaev got off the phone, right?

MS. CONRAD: And he moves around a bit?

MS. CONRAD: And then he begins to move away at 14:49:28, correct?

MS. CONRAD: And then people move around a bit, correct?

MS. CONRAD: Nothing further.

RedirectRedirectRedirect Examination - Michelle Gamble Michelle Gamble William D. Weinreb

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. WEINREB:

MR. WEINREB: So, Ms. Gamble, you were asked some questions about how far back in time you reviewed photographs in order to make that chalk?

MR. WEINREB: You said you first went back to 2:37 p.m.?

MR. WEINREB: And that was before Mr. Tsarnaev was even on the scene?

MR. WEINREB: And you said that the children who were arrayed along the railing, they were there at 2:37?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: They were, yes.

MR. WEINREB: And they were still there ten minutes later?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: Yes, in the same, pretty much, position.

MR. WEINREB: And that was true all the way up until the bomb exploded?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: When the first bomb went off they moved. Everybody within the scene moved around. But right up until that first blast, that's where they were.

MR. WEINREB: And so that means that the defendant walked right by them when he walked up to the scene and put his backpack down?

MS. CONRAD: Objection. Objection.

THE COURT: Sustained to the form of the question.

BY MR. WEINREB:

MR. WEINREB: You remember the defense showed you an exhibit marked 3146 that was a photo of Mr. Tsarnaev with the phone to his ear?

MR. WEINREB: Do you know what kind of device that was taken with?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: The photograph?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: Was with an iPhone.

MR. WEINREB: Can we have Exhibit --

MS. CONRAD: Objection to scope, your Honor.

THE COURT: I don't know what the question is yet.

MS. CONRAD: Well, the last question. I'm just a little slow.

THE COURT: No, that's all right.

MR. WEINREB: Can we have Exhibit 1575, please.

BY MR. WEINREB:

MR. WEINREB: So Ms. Conrad asked you many questions about these three individuals right here.

MR. WEINREB: Do you recall that?

MR. WEINREB: After the first blast went off, did all three of these individuals leave the scene?

MR. WEINREB: So that the only people left were this woman --

MS. CONRAD: Objection. Foundation, your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

BY MR. WEINREB:

MR. WEINREB: So that the only people left were this woman I'm circling right here, correct?

MR. WEINREB: Do you know what her name is?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: Roseann Sdoia.

MR. WEINREB: And these people right here, correct?

MR. WEINREB: So after the defendant got off the phone, saw the first blast occur and got ready to set off his bomb, that's who was there?

MS. CONRAD: Objection.

THE COURT: Sustained to the form of the question.

BY MR. WEINREB:

MR. WEINREB: Were any of these three people, to your knowledge, killed by the blast?

MS. CONRAD: Objection.

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MR. WEINREB:

MR. WEINREB: Ms. Conrad showed you images of the defendant walking away as -- after the first blast occurs, correct?

MR. WEINREB: And then when he's almost off the screen, the second blast occurs, correct?

MR. WEINREB: And you said you looked at that video hundreds of times?

MR. WEINREB: As he walks away, does he keep looking back over his shoulder?

MS. CONRAD: Objection. The video speaks for itself.

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MR. WEINREB:

MR. WEINREB: And right before the bomb goes off, does he turn his head back for the last time?

MS. CONRAD: Objection. The video speaks for itself.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MS. CONRAD: Recross, your Honor? It's within the scope.

RecrossRecrossRecross-Examination - Michelle Gamble Michelle Gamble Miriam Conrad

RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: Agent Gamble, those people that Mr. Weinreb said -- or excuse me -- you said after Mr. Weinreb asked you -- left the scene after the first blast, that was after Mr. Tsarnaev walked away, correct?

MS. CONRAD: And because he walked away at the time of the first blast, right?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: I believe they actually -- when they heard the first blast, they immediately started to remove themselves from --

MS. CONRAD: As we saw the video, he had started to walk away immediately at the time of the first blast, right?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: Yes, and so did some of those girls.

MS. CONRAD: Okay. So he would not have -- strike that. Now, there's an exhibit I think the government --

MS. CONRAD: This is just for the witness.

MS. CONRAD: Are you familiar with this photograph?

MS. CONRAD: And that was taken approximately 2:37 p.m.?

MR. WEINREB: Your Honor, I think introducing new exhibits at this point is beyond the scope. This is recross.

THE COURT: Go ahead. You may have it.

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: And this is a photograph that -- I'm sorry. I think I lost my thread there. You're familiar with this photograph?

MS. CONRAD: And that photograph was taken approximately 2:37 --

MS. CONRAD: And I'd offer this, your Honor.

COURT CLERK: As what number?

MS. CONRAD: I don't know. I would have to ask Mr. Watkins. I thought the government was offering that, so I don't know if they had a number for it. So the next number I think would probably --

COURT CLERK: The last one we left off was 3137.

(Defense Exhibit No. 3138 received into evidence.)

MS. CONRAD: And may that be published, please?

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: And you said that you examined these photos from 31 -- excuse me -- from 2:37 forward, correct?

MS. CONRAD: So this is one of the photos that you examined?

MS. CONRAD: And do you see a woman standing here?

MS. CONRAD: And do you see a man standing here?

MS. CONRAD: In the vicinity of the Richards family?

MS. CONRAD: Okay. And so those people weren't there at 2:48, correct?

MICHELLE GAMBLE: (Nonverbal response.)

MS. CONRAD: I have nothing further.

THE COURT: Okay, Agent. Thank you. You may step down.

(The witness is excused.)

THE COURT: We're close enough to eleven o'clock. We'll take the morning recess at this time.

COURT CLERK: All rise for the Court and the jury. The Court will take the morning recess.

(The Court and jury exit the courtroom and there is a recess in the proceedings at 10:49 a.m.)

(After the recess:)

COURT CLERK: All rise for the Court and the jury.

(The Court and jury enter the courtroom at 11:14 a.m.)

COURT CLERK: Be seated.

MS. PELLEGRINI: The United States calls Dr. Henry Nields.

THE COURT: Are the monitors shut off?

MS. PELLEGRINI: Not just yet, your Honor. If I may, we have some exhibits that -- there are some that are already in evidence and some that can go before the jury, and I'll advise the Court.

Continue to next page4.Henry Nields — Direct