1.Amanda Ransom — Direct/Cross
356 linesP R O C E E D I N G S
COURT CLERK: All rise for the Court and the jury.
(The Court and jury enter the courtroom at 9:12 a.m.)
COURT CLERK: Be seated.
THE COURT: Good morning, jurors.
JUROR: Good morning, your Honor.
MS. CONRAD: The defense calls Amanda Sass- -- excuse me -- Amanda Ransom.
AMANDA RANSOM, duly sworn
COURT CLERK: Have a seat. State your name, spell your first and last name for the record, and keep your voice up.
AMANDA RANSOM: My name is Amanda Ransom, A-M-A-N-D-A, R-A-N-S-O-M.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: Good morning, Ms. Ransom. Is "Ransom" your married name?
AMANDA RANSOM: It is, yes.
MS. CONRAD: When did you get married?
AMANDA RANSOM: May of 2014.
MS. CONRAD: And what was your maiden name?
AMANDA RANSOM: Saisselin.
MS. CONRAD: Can you spell that, please, for the court reporter?
AMANDA RANSOM: S-A-I-S-S-E-L-I-N.
MS. CONRAD: How old are you, Ms. Ransom?
AMANDA RANSOM: I'm 25.
MS. CONRAD: And what kind of work do you do?
AMANDA RANSOM: I work in a local university.
MS. CONRAD: Where do you live?
AMANDA RANSOM: I live in Providence.
MS. CONRAD: Rhode Island?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: Where did you go to school?
AMANDA RANSOM: I went to Suffolk University.
MS. CONRAD: And when did you graduate?
AMANDA RANSOM: In 2011.
MS. CONRAD: What was your major?
AMANDA RANSOM: Philosophy.
MS. CONRAD: Where did you live your freshman year of college?
AMANDA RANSOM: I lived at the dorm at 150 Tremont Street.
MS. CONRAD: And did you share a room with someone?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes, I shared a room with three other girls.
MS. CONRAD: And was one of them Katherine Russell?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And did you get to know Katherine over the course of your freshman year?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And how would you describe your relationship that year?
AMANDA RANSOM: We became very close our freshman year.
MS. CONRAD: What was she like when you met her in 2007?
AMANDA RANSOM: She was very smart and sarcastic and funny.
MS. CONRAD: What kinds of things would you do together?
AMANDA RANSOM: We just -- we lived together. We would go shopping and eat together and pretty much -- we'd go to school together, our homework, everything, really.
MS. CONRAD: At some point did you meet -- or did you hear about, I should say, Tamerlan Tsarnaev?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And how did you hear about him?
AMANDA RANSOM: She -- after she met him, she told us that she met him.
MS. CONRAD: What did she tell you about him?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
AMANDA RANSOM: She just told us that she had met this person in a club that she liked.
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: And at some point, did you meet him?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And did you know what his relationship at that point was with Katherine?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes. It was in its very early stages. I just knew that he liked her.
MS. CONRAD: And she liked him?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: I would like to show you Exhibit 3418.
MS. CONRAD: I don't know if the government has an objection to this exhibit; otherwise, I would ask to admit it and publish it.
MS. PELLEGRINI: No objection.
MS. CONRAD: Thank you.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3418 received into evidence.)
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: Do you see that photograph on the screen?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And who is that in that picture?
AMANDA RANSOM: That's Tamerlan and Katherine.
MS. CONRAD: And is that what they looked like in about 2007?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: In fact, did you take this picture?
AMANDA RANSOM: I did.
MS. CONRAD: And what was he like?
AMANDA RANSOM: He was very outgoing and chatty and flashy.
MS. CONRAD: What do you mean by "flashy"?
AMANDA RANSOM: The way he dressed and...
MS. CONRAD: So I'd like to show another photograph, Exhibit 3419.
MS. PELLEGRINI: Just for the witness, please. I think I have an objection to this one.
MS. CONRAD: Oh, I'm sorry. Not 3419. I got my numbers wrong. 3507-053A. I'm not going to be offering 3419, Ms. Pellegrini.
Do you have an objection to this one?
MS. CONRAD: I'd offer this, your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. The number again?
MS. CONRAD: 3507-053A.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-053A received into evidence.)
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: And do you see that photograph?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And is that what Tamerlan looked like when you met him in 2007 and during the time that you knew him?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: Or at least the beginning of the time that you knew him, I guess I should say?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And do you know where this photograph was taken?
AMANDA RANSOM: Did you say -- I'm sorry?
MS. CONRAD: Do you know where this photograph was taken?
AMANDA RANSOM: I believe it's the North End.
MS. CONRAD: Of Boston?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: Did you go out with Katherine and Tamerlan?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And would that be just the three of you or with groups?
AMANDA RANSOM: At first we went out in groups; and later on, we did go out just the three of us.
MS. CONRAD: And where would you go?
AMANDA RANSOM: At first we went to a nightclub a few times; and later on, I've gone to dinner with them.
MS. CONRAD: So you said you went to nightclubs. How old were you at this point?
AMANDA RANSOM: I was about 20, maybe.
MS. CONRAD: Freshman year?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: Were you underage at that point?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: How did you get into the nightclub?
AMANDA RANSOM: He would pay the bouncers to get us in.
MS. CONRAD: Did you know what he did for a living?
AMANDA RANSOM: It was unclear, but he said he worked with cars, delivering cars.
MS. CONRAD: And do you remember what kind of car he was driving at that time?
AMANDA RANSOM: He was driving a Mercedes.
MS. CONRAD: And did Katherine tell you anything about his background?
AMANDA RANSOM: About -- I'm sorry?
MS. CONRAD: His background.
AMANDA RANSOM: I was aware that he was Chechen. I don't know who told me that.
MS. CONRAD: Now, did you live together with Katherine during your sophomore year of college?
MS. CONRAD: But did you remain good friends?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: How would you describe Katherine and Tamerlan's relationship over the course of freshman and sophomore year?
AMANDA RANSOM: They were on and off multiple times. They broke up and got back together multiple times.
MS. CONRAD: And did you know why?
AMANDA RANSOM: There was a range of reasons, but at one point she found out that he was dating another woman.
MS. CONRAD: And how was it that they got back together?
AMANDA RANSOM: I remember one time she ran into him on the street, and they talked, and she decided to see him again.
MS. CONRAD: What was his personality like? Was he sort of a laid-back person?
AMANDA RANSOM: No, it was more aggressive.
MS. CONRAD: And did you at some point start to feel uncomfortable around him?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection to the leading.
THE COURT: You may have it. Go ahead.
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: At some point did you start to feel uncomfortable around him?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: Why?
AMANDA RANSOM: There were a few instances between -- that I witnessed and also between us and our conversations where I just didn't quite feel like we were on the same page.
MS. CONRAD: Can you tell me about that -- tell us about those, please?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes. When we -- when we were living together in our sophomore year, later in the summer, I could --
MS. CONRAD: I'm sorry. Let me just stop you there. So you didn't live together in sophomore year, but the summer after sophomore year, you shared an apartment?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: I'm sorry. Please continue.
AMANDA RANSOM: During that year, we were all in the same apartment. I could hear some of their conversations, and I heard some of the -- she would tell me some of the things that he said to her. And at one point we all went out, and I witnessed him being aggressive with somebody on the street.
MS. CONRAD: So let's go back to that. You said you heard some of the things they were talking about. What did you hear?
AMANDA RANSOM: At one point I heard him laughing really -- really hard, and she was crying in her room. And later I asked her what had happened, and she said that after they had had sex, he told her that he had AIDS, and when she started to cry, he laughed at her, just --
MS. CONRAD: And did he say whether he was serious or not?
AMANDA RANSOM: He said he wasn't serious. It was a joke.
MS. CONRAD: But she wasn't laughing?
MS. CONRAD: And did you ever hear them arguing?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: Did you ever feel uncomfortable with him in your personal interactions with him?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: Can you tell us more about that?
AMANDA RANSOM: Just the way that our conversations would go, I always felt like we weren't quite having the same conversation. He would sort of laugh when I didn't think something was funny, or -- I think certain things may have just been lost between us. Our conversations were not always quite clear.
MS. CONRAD: Did you -- you mentioned that you once saw him be aggressive with someone on the street. Please explain.
AMANDA RANSOM: We had gone out to dinner, Katherine and Tamerlan and I, and we were walking on the street, and a man sitting on a wall said something to Katherine and I, and Tamerlan confronted him and asked him what he said. And he repeated it. And Tamerlan punched him in the chest.
MS. CONRAD: How hard did he punch him?
AMANDA RANSOM: Hard. I think the man was knocked out on the ground.
MS. CONRAD: He fell to the ground?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yeah.
MS. CONRAD: And what was your reaction to that?
AMANDA RANSOM: I was shocked, and I just -- we walked away very quickly.
MS. CONRAD: When was that; do you remember? Was it -- I mean, can you pin it down in terms of freshman year, sophomore year, summer?
AMANDA RANSOM: I believe it was sophomore year, but I don't remember the exact date.
MS. CONRAD: And you said that you lived together with Katherine at -- in the summer after your sophomore year, so this would have been 2009? The summer of 2009?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And at that point, had you noticed any changes in her?
AMANDA RANSOM: That's when she started to be more exclusive with him. We were still very close at that point.
MS. CONRAD: Did she still dress in the same way?
AMANDA RANSOM: That summer, yes.
MS. CONRAD: And did you, at some point during the summer or fall of 2009, suspect that she was being emotionally abused?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
You may answer.
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: And what made you suspect that?
AMANDA RANSOM: The conversation I mentioned previously, amongst other similar conversations.
MS. CONRAD: Was there anything else that you observed her doing to try to please Tamerlan?
AMANDA RANSOM: That was around the time that he gave her the Qur'an for the first time, and she sort of observed some holidays with him.
MS. CONRAD: Before that, did he ever make comments to her or did she tell you that he had complained to her about her weight?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection. Leading.
THE COURT: Overruled.
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: So can you tell us about that, please.
AMANDA RANSOM: Another conversation she told me about that I was not there for, she was in the car with him, and he said to her that she was getting fat and she needed to lose weight.
MS. CONRAD: And did you observe her make efforts to do that?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes. She said it was in her best interests.
MS. CONRAD: And what did she do?
AMANDA RANSOM: She would try to -- she tried to lose weight. It was through diet, not exercise.
MS. CONRAD: Did you think she needed to lose weight?
MS. CONRAD: And at some -- after the summer, did you and Katherine move into another apartment at the beginning of the 2009 school year?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And did you move in with somebody else?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And can you -- and was that person Stephanie?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: Can you describe the layout of that apartment, please?
AMANDA RANSOM: It was two floors, and Stephanie and I lived on the second floor, and Katherine lived on the first floor.
MS. CONRAD: And did you each have your own bedroom?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: How many bathrooms were there?
AMANDA RANSOM: Two.
MS. CONRAD: And where was -- was there a bathroom on each floor?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: How much would you see of Tamerlan at that point?
AMANDA RANSOM: He was there most of the time, but I didn't see him very much.
MS. CONRAD: So -- and what about Katherine? Did you see much of Katherine at that point?
AMANDA RANSOM: I started seeing her less and less at that point.
MS. CONRAD: Do you know whether she was attending class?
AMANDA RANSOM: I had heard from other friends at school that they saw her at school.
MS. CONRAD: And what changes did you notice in -- if any, did you notice in Katherine at that point?
AMANDA RANSOM: Besides not really being involved in her daily life that much anymore, she started to change her dress at that point, and she was wearing a hijab.
MS. CONRAD: And what were some of the other changes that you noticed?
AMANDA RANSOM: I don't remember what month, but she had started to dress fully -- she had started to fully cover herself, and she just became very quiet and, obviously, alienated from myself and Stephanie.
MS. CONRAD: I'm sorry. I missed the word.
AMANDA RANSOM: Alienated from Stephanie and myself.
MS. CONRAD: "Alienated"? Did you try during that summer and fall to maintain what had been a very close friendship?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And how would she respond?
AMANDA RANSOM: I don't recall exactly what was said, but it was unsuccessful.
MS. CONRAD: Did something happen at the end of 2009 that caused you to move out of that apartment?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: What was it?
AMANDA RANSOM: I had -- I had heard an argument between them, and I attempted to help Katherine and --
MS. CONRAD: What did you do?
AMANDA RANSOM: I went downstairs to her room, and I banged on the door. And I knew that she needed help because I could hear her asking for it earlier, before I ran downstairs. And she said it was none of my business and wanted me to go away. And --
MS. CONRAD: Let me just stop you right there. Do you remember what time of day or night this was?
AMANDA RANSOM: It was, I think, about one o'clock in the morning, two o'clock in the morning.
MS. CONRAD: And what exactly did you hear, as best you recall and as best you can describe it?
AMANDA RANSOM: I could hear -- I was sleeping with my TV on, and I was woken up by how loud they were fighting, and I could hear banging, and I don't know what the noises were, but it was screaming as well as throwing things or...
MS. CONRAD: Did you think it was just a verbal argument?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
You may answer it.
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: What did you hear that made you think that it might be a physical fight?
AMANDA RANSOM: I could hear things being physically either thrown or moved or...
MS. CONRAD: When you went downstairs, how did Katherine sound?
AMANDA RANSOM: She sounded frantic, but when I spoke to her, she was very calm and stern with me.
MS. CONRAD: So when you -- after she told you it was none of your business, what did you do?
AMANDA RANSOM: I said that he needed to get out of our house.
MS. CONRAD: And this was still -- you were outside the bedroom door?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And did either of them respond?
AMANDA RANSOM: She repeated that it was none of my business.
MS. CONRAD: So what did you do?
AMANDA RANSOM: I went back upstairs to go talk to Stephanie.
MS. CONRAD: And what happened after you went upstairs?
AMANDA RANSOM: Their door opened, and he, I think, came out. I didn't see because when I heard their door open, I had gone in my room. And he was speaking to me from the bottom of the stairwell.
MS. CONRAD: So let me just stop you there. So you're in your room. Did you have a lock on the door of your room?
MS. CONRAD: Did you do anything to secure the door?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes. After he spoke to me, I moved my desk to barricade my door.
MS. CONRAD: What did he say?
AMANDA RANSOM: He -- it was repeating, very angrily, "Get down here right now."
MS. CONRAD: And did he say anything after that?
AMANDA RANSOM: When I said no, he said, "If I ever see you again."
MS. CONRAD: And how did you interpret that?
AMANDA RANSOM: I was very scared.
MS. CONRAD: Did you take it as a threat?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And is that when you barricaded the door?
AMANDA RANSOM: It was when he was asking me to come downstairs.
MS. CONRAD: So what did you do at that point? This is now, what, one-thirty, two in the morning?
AMANDA RANSOM: Uh-huh.
MS. CONRAD: So what did you do?
AMANDA RANSOM: When I heard their door shut again, I ran into Stephanie's room to ask if she had heard everything that had happened, and she was also wide awake with her light on, and she was scared. And we packed bags, and we left.
MS. CONRAD: Now, you say you left. Where did you go?
AMANDA RANSOM: We went to a friend from high school that I knew who lived in Boston's house, apartment.
MS. CONRAD: Why did you leave?
AMANDA RANSOM: We were scared.
MS. CONRAD: Did you take time to change clothes?
AMANDA RANSOM: I'm sorry?
MS. CONRAD: Did you take time to change clothes?
MS. CONRAD: So you left in your pajamas?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And did you call the police?
MS. CONRAD: Why not?
AMANDA RANSOM: I was thinking that she would deny anything ever having happened and he wouldn't be put in jail, and therefore he would be more agitated with me.
MS. CONRAD: Did you take some action, though?
AMANDA RANSOM: I had asked a lawyer for advice on how to get out of our lease.
MS. CONRAD: And did you actually send the lawyer an email that night?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: At about three in the morning?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: I'd offer, at this time, Exhibit 3238, your Honor.
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. CONRAD: May I show it just to the witness, please?
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: Thank you.
Just for the witness. Do you have 3238?
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: Is this the email that you sent?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And what was the date?
AMANDA RANSOM: December 14th, 2009.
MS. CONRAD: And that was when this happened?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: Did you ever move back into the apartment?
MS. CONRAD: Did you ever see Katherine again?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: When did you see her?
AMANDA RANSOM: About a week or two later to discuss moving out.
MS. CONRAD: And -- well, let me back up a second. Between when you left the apartment in the middle of the night and when you saw her again, did you hear from her?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And how did you hear from her?
AMANDA RANSOM: She had called my phone the next day.
MS. CONRAD: And spoke to you or left you a message?
AMANDA RANSOM: She left me a message.
MS. CONRAD: And what did she say?
AMANDA RANSOM: She said that I was -- she said that Tamerlan had never threatened me and that I was being childish.
MS. CONRAD: Did you -- and what happened when you met with her?
AMANDA RANSOM: I'm sorry?
MS. CONRAD: What happened when you met with her?
AMANDA RANSOM: It was very business. We were talking about subletting our rooms.
MS. CONRAD: And fair to say that was the end of your friendship?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: I have nothing further.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. PELLEGRINI:
MS. PELLEGRINI: Good morning, Ms. Ransom.
AMANDA RANSOM: Good morning.
MS. PELLEGRINI: I just have a few questions for you. When Tamerlan Tsarnaev, you said, told you to "Come down here," did you go?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Okay. And do you have anything to tell this jury about the defendant, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev?
MS. CONRAD: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MS. PELLEGRINI:
MS. PELLEGRINI: Did you ever meet Dzhokhar Tsarnaev?
MS. CONRAD: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
You may answer that.
BY MS. PELLEGRINI:
MS. PELLEGRINI: Did you even know that Tamerlan Tsarnaev had a brother?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. PELLEGRINI: And did you know that while you were living with Katherine Russell?
AMANDA RANSOM: Yes.
MS. PELLEGRINI: All right. And -- but you never met Dzhokhar Tsarnaev?
MS. PELLEGRINI: I have nothing further.
THE COURT: Is that it?
MS. CONRAD: Thank you very much.
(The witness is excused.)
MS. CONRAD: The defendant calls Elizabeth Zamparelli.