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2015 Federal TrialtranscripttranscriptRobert Ponte — Direct/Cross - Day 53 - 2015 Federal TrialRobert Ponte described Tamerlan’s classroom isolation, limited piano skills, and eventual withdrawal from a high school jazz ensemble. Brief cross-examination concluded his testimony, and Day 53 adjourned at 3:56 p.m.
Nadine PellegriniMiriam ConradGeorge A. O'Toole Jr.Robert PonteCourt ClerkRobert PonteMS. CONRADMS. PELLEGRINITHE COURTdirectcross
2015 Federal Trial/Day 53/April 27, 2015
12 pages·8 witnesses·2,401 lines
The defense sought life imprisonment in its opening and presented testimony about Tamerlan's behavior, family relationships, and digital records. Cross-examination explored witnesses' limited knowledge of Dzhokhar and the brothers' relationship.
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DirectDirectDirect Examination - Robert Ponte Robert Ponte Miriam Conrad

ROBERT PONTE, duly sworn

COURT CLERK: State your name, spell your last name for the record, keep your voice up and speak into the mic.

ROBERT PONTE: Robert Ponte, P-O-N-T-E.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: Good afternoon, Mr. Ponte. I'm over here.

ROBERT PONTE: Oh. Good afternoon.

(Laughter.)

MS. CONRAD: Can you tell us, sir, what you do for a living?

ROBERT PONTE: Currently I'm a piano teacher, jazz pianist. For 36 years I had been the music teacher, jazz and band, at the Cambridge Rindge and Latin School.

MS. CONRAD: And that's a public school?

MS. CONRAD: And did you, in that job, meet Tamerlan Tsarnaev?

MS. CONRAD: And how did you meet him?

ROBERT PONTE: He came to me in September -- I can't quite recall the year at the moment.

MS. CONRAD: Let me see if I could help you out.

ROBERT PONTE: Thank you.

MS. CONRAD: If I could just have the -- I think -- do you have it up? 3534A, please, just for the witness.

Never mind. I'll use a piece of paper. Maybe not. I'll use this. Oh, it's up. Okay.

MS. CONRAD: Can you take a look at your screen, please, Mr. Ponte, and -- let me see if I can make this a little bigger. Does that help refresh your recollection?

MS. CONRAD: And what school year was it?

ROBERT PONTE: September 2004-2005.

MS. CONRAD: Your Honor, I would offer 3543A.

MS. PELLEGRINI: No objection.

(Defense Exhibit No. 3543A received into evidence.)

MS. CONRAD: May that be published to the jury, please?

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: And do you see your name on here as one of his teachers?

MS. CONRAD: And if you can just point to that. If you touch the screen, it will make a mark and you can circle your name.

ROBERT PONTE: Did I do that correctly?

MS. CONRAD: No, but let me try it and see if -- is that it right there?

MS. CONRAD: And what was the class that you taught him?

ROBERT PONTE: Jazz ensemble, beginning.

MS. CONRAD: And what year was that?

ROBERT PONTE: That would have been September of 2004.

MS. CONRAD: And drawing your attention to a different part of this document, can you tell us what grade Tamerlan was in at that time?

ROBERT PONTE: Grade 11.

MS. CONRAD: And do you know how old he was then?

ROBERT PONTE: He seemed a little older than most of the students there, but I don't recall exactly.

MS. CONRAD: If I could just have the document camera for a moment just for the witness.

MS. CONRAD: If I could just direct your attention to this record, does that refresh your recollection as to his age in 2004?

ROBERT PONTE: Okay. There it is. So 1988.

MS. CONRAD: Right. So he would have been in 2004 -- I'm sorry. It's '86, I think. Let me zoom in a little more. It's a little hard to see. Well, I guess -- does that help you at all?

ROBERT PONTE: No. Actually, on my screen it was just reduced, the size of the document.

MS. CONRAD: That was probably my fault. How about now?

ROBERT PONTE: Yes, that's a six.

MS. CONRAD: So in 2004 he would have been -- at the beginning of the school year in September he would have been 17 going on 18, right?

MS. CONRAD: In 11th grade?

ROBERT PONTE: Yup. He would have been just a month shy of his 18th birthday.

MS. CONRAD: So a little older than most students?

ROBERT PONTE: In 11th grade? Yes.

MS. CONRAD: Do you remember what he was like physically?

ROBERT PONTE: Solidly built boy.

MS. CONRAD: And what was he like? What was his personality like?

ROBERT PONTE: He was polite, he was respectful, but he kept himself isolated. He was not particularly engaged socially. I tried to reach out to my students. I like to pride myself on being able to engage them, smile, enjoy the class. I don't ever recall him smiling in my presence. I don't recall him engaging any of the students in conversation other than the, you know, most basic logistical issues of "May I borrow that music stand?" "Where's the sheet?" Things like that. No social discourse.

MS. CONRAD: Do you use humor in your classroom?

ROBERT PONTE: Yeah, I'm kind of a wiseguy.

MS. CONRAD: Or at least try to use humor in your classroom?

ROBERT PONTE: Probably the better way to express it.

MS. CONRAD: And could you get a laugh out of him?

ROBERT PONTE: No. I put that up to language as much as anything else but...

MS. CONRAD: When you say "language," you knew that he was a fairly recent immigrant, right?

ROBERT PONTE: He had a strong accent, but we communicated effectively.

MS. CONRAD: And was that unusual at Cambridge Rindge and Latin, for students to come from another country?

ROBERT PONTE: Oh, not at all. Not at all. They love to talk about how they have at any given time native-born students from something around 40 different countries -- 80 different countries, excuse me -- 40 home languages spoken. It's a common mantra for the school. We take pride in it, actually.

MS. CONRAD: So his seeming sort of withdrawn or cut off, did you attribute that to his being a recent immigrant or did you think something else was going on?

MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection, leading.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Why don't you try again.

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: Well, let me ask this: What, if any, concerns did you have about Tamerlan when you observed his demeanor and his interactions or lack thereof?

ROBERT PONTE: Well, I mean, you get children, students of all types, all personalities, but when you see someone who chooses to set themselves apart, you want to know why. I mean, we really feel that community is important for these kids, to be a part of something, which was one of the reasons I brought him in. When I heard his story -- he came to me, asked me to join the group, he really was undertrained for the group at that point, but he seemed impassioned. He really -- "I want to do this."

I tried to lay out for him why he wasn't the best candidate and normally someone in his situation I wouldn't permit to join this group, not at this level of his piano experience; however, one of the things that I try to do, that the school tries to do, is to engage students in community. And it was clear to me, it seemed clear to me, that he was fairly new to the country, certainly to the school system, that this might be a good opportunity for him. So I'll often make exceptions for students for various reasons if I think that it might be a benefit.

MS. CONRAD: So can I just ask you to explain a little bit more -- so what is the nature of this class?

ROBERT PONTE: Well, it's a jazz ensemble. It meets once per week in the evening. It's an elective as a music course. The prerequisite is that you be a solid, reasonably well-trained musician to begin with because from there you move on into areas of improvisation and creation, arranging, and you have to have a good solid set of basic skills.

He had -- my understanding is that he had had one semester of piano class, which really doesn't qualify you, but he was kind of -- I think I used the word "impassioned" before. He made it clear to me he really wanted to try this; he was very interested. I knew he didn't have a piano at home, at least that's what he told me, so we agreed he would use the piano lab at school whenever he could before and after school.

That's a burden on a student, and we discussed that, and I told him, "Look, I'm going to let you try this. I want you to have the opportunity. But to be fair, you need to know this is not going to be easy. This is going to be a burden on you to keep this up, and we'll have to talk along the way. So it might be too much for you." He seemed appreciative of that. You know, he thanked me. I took him at face value.

MS. CONRAD: And is this a group that performs?

ROBERT PONTE: They do. At least twice a year, generally more.

MS. CONRAD: And as the year went on, how did he do?

ROBERT PONTE: He made a good effort at first. He kept up more or less in the early stages, but as the work became more sophisticated, it was clear he was having a really hard time keeping up.

MS. CONRAD: Did you make a decision about -- as a result of that?

ROBERT PONTE: Ultimately. We met a couple of times for extra help after school. He was -- as always, he was respectful, but he wasn't able to keep up with the class.

So I made the decision -- there were a couple of -- I guess you could call them warning conversations. I told him he really needed to try to find a way to get in there to make the work happen. As I said, we had a couple of extra-help sessions.

I finally said to him, "Look, if we don't have some meaningful progress in the next few weeks, I can't let you play in the spring concert. You're not going to be ready." This is a team effort. I said, "I want to respect what you tried to do, the difficulty of your position, but I can't put you on that stage if you're not ready. It's not fair to the rest of the ensemble."

MS. CONRAD: How did he respond to that?

ROBERT PONTE: Well, he didn't yell at me, but he -- I guess it's fair to say he glared at me. I won't say I was ever nervous in his presence, but I was definitely not being able to read him. I was uncomfortable. I never knew how he would respond. Again, he showed so little aspect of himself in class, it was hard to know how he would respond to any particular situation.

He glared at me. He was not happy. He argued, respectfully, but the look in his eyes was not pleasant. I wasn't surprised by that, but not really knowing -- not understanding him the way I felt I did most of my students, I wasn't sure to what extent he would -- I didn't suspect any sort of physical altercation or out-of-control altercation, but I wasn't comfortable. I didn't know where he would take that.

MS. CONRAD: Had you, by the way, discussed your concerns about Tamerlan with any other members of the faculty?

ROBERT PONTE: There was a teacher next door who had met him, and I really don't recall under what circumstances, but we did speak of him a couple of times.

MS. CONRAD: And what concerns were expressed?

THE COURT: Sustained.

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: What concerns did you have about him?

ROBERT PONTE: He didn't seem to be adjusting socially, at least to the classroom. I wasn't aware of his situation outside. But it was very unusual for someone to come in week after week and remain isolated.

I'd had many students with language difficulties in the past, but there always seemed to be a way, some touch point, some interface with the other kids somewhere with me, and I never found that with him.

MS. CONRAD: After you had this conversation with him where you felt he was not really able to participate, what happened? Did he remain in the class?

ROBERT PONTE: Well, we had a couple of these in advance of his actually leaving the class. You know, he made kind of promises that kids make, but it didn't happen and I understood. I didn't judge him for it. It was a difficult situation. When we had the discussion, it was perhaps three weeks, a month before the concert. As I said, he was not happy --

MS. CONRAD: Did he end up withdrawing from the class?

ROBERT PONTE: He did. I made an agreement. This is an elective. This is something the kids choose to do at night. And especially given his unusual circumstances of really not being prepared for the class -- and not his fault, I was trying to help him out -- I didn't want to ruin his grade point average.

I didn't want to put him in a difficult academic position, so we agreed on a gentleman's C. I said, "I will give you a reasonable grade here. You did make some effort, but you are in an unusually difficult circumstance." So that's the grade he left with. He went to his guidance counselor and had it changed.

MS. CONRAD: When you heard about the Boston Marathon bombing in April of 2013 and you heard Tamerlan's name associated with it, did you recognize the name at first?

THE COURT: No, you may answer whether you recognized the name.

ROBERT PONTE: I didn't initially, no.

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: Did someone contact you and remind you that you had had this interaction with him?

THE COURT: Overruled.

You may answer it.

ROBERT PONTE: I received a phone call from a colleague who said --

MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection to what somebody else said.

BY MS. CONRAD:

MS. CONRAD: Did that phone call -- after that phone call, did you recognize the name and the face?

ROBERT PONTE: Yes. There was -- I don't know the best way to word this, but following my conversation a lot of memories came flooding back.

MS. CONRAD: And how did you react to the news that someone you had taught had been involved in the marathon bombing?

THE COURT: Sustained.

MS. CONRAD: Nothing further.

MS. PELLEGRINI: I just have a couple.

THE COURT: Go ahead.

CrossCrossCross-Examination - Robert Ponte Robert Ponte Nadine Pellegrini

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. PELLEGRINI:

MS. PELLEGRINI: Good afternoon, Mr. Ponte.

ROBERT PONTE: Good afternoon.

MS. PELLEGRINI: My name is Nadine Pellegrini. I'm an Assistant United States Attorney. I just have a couple of questions for you.

So we're talking about a class that Tamerlan Tsarnaev took in 2004?

MS. PELLEGRINI: This would be nine years before the Boston Marathon bombing?

MS. PELLEGRINI: And he wanted to be in a jazz ensemble but couldn't play the piano well?

MS. PELLEGRINI: I have nothing further. Thank you.

THE COURT: Anything further?

MS. CONRAD: Nothing further.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, Mr. Ponte. You may step down.

(The witness is excused.)

THE COURT: Unless Mr. Curran is really short, I think we should recess here.

Okay. We'll call it a day. Again, remember my cautions, please. And we'll see you tomorrow and make some more progress.

COURT CLERK: All rise for the Court and jury. Court will be in recess.

(The Court and jury exit the courtroom and the proceedings adjourned at 3:56 p.m.)

Continue to Day 541.Rogerio Franca — Direct/Cross