7.Nabisat Suleimanova — Direct
321 linesNABISAT SULEIMANOVA, duly sworn through interpreter
COURT CLERK: State your name and spell your first and last name for the record.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Suleimanova Nabisat Magomedovna.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Good morning.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: 1974.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: In the village of Chokh.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Until second grade I went to school in Chokh, and later on in Kaspiysk.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Now I love in the village of Unty.
MR. FICK: And I'm going to put a map up here on the screen. Is Unty a village in the mountains not far from Chokh?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, here.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-85 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. This is the house of my in-laws.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: This is Anzor, Jahar's father.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my husband.
(Exhibit No. 3507-84 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: This is the view of the mountains that we have from our house.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-86 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: My mother and his mother are sisters, and we are cousins.
MR. FICK: So is this you that I'm circling here in the middle of the chart? There's a Russian version in front of you.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. Yes.
MR. FICK: And so there's only seven years' difference between you and Zubeidat in age. Is that right?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. She came when Tamerlan was just a few months old.
MR. FICK: I'm going to put back up on the screen what's in evidence as 3507-13. Is this a picture from roughly that time?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. Yes.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: It was unusual at first, but then everybody got used to this idea.
MR. FICK: Can you describe just a couple of the differences in culture and custom between the Avar nationality and the Chechen nationality?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: There are a lot of traditions, but I don't really know much about it.
MR. FICK: Well, for example, in terms of the way weddings are performed, are there some differences in tradition between the Chechens and Avars?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. In their tradition, the bride spends the whole day by herself in the corner or in a special place that's assigned to her, and in our tradition, the bride sits at the table.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-117 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, of course I do.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, from my wedding.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: This is Aunt Patimat, my mother's oldest sister.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: This is the wife of Uncle Shukhrudin, my mother's brother.
MR. FICK: Again turning to some of the cultural differences between Chechens and Avars, is there a difference in the way children are handled after a divorce between the two cultures?
MS. PELLEGRINI: I'm going to object to this, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled. I'll allow it.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, there are differences. In Chechen tradition, the children usually stay with the father. They don't go to live with the mother. And in Avar tradition, they usually stay with the mother.
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: And what about the role of men in the family and the eldest men in the family as between Chechen and Avar cultures? Are there similarities or differences?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: The similarity is that the older brother usually -- or an older male is in charge of the family, is responsible for the family.
MR. FICK: Now, what -- for example, in your family, you have all sisters. You have no older brother. So if your father were not available, what male would be the one responsible in your tradition for making family decisions?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: It will be my father's brother.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: My father specifically only has one brother, but if there are several brothers and the oldest one is not available, then the younger brother can also be in charge.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Then the oldest is responsible.
MR. FICK: From the time of their marriage until their departure to the United States, did Anzor and Zubeidat and their children live in a number of different places?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, they moved from Kyrgyzstan to Dagestan and to Chechnya and then back to Kyrgyzstan.
MR. FICK: And between stops, so to speak, did they often come to see the family or stay with the family for a time in Dagestan?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, they stayed with the family in Makhachkala.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: He was born in Kizlyar region.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. Yes.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Well, Aunt Zubeidat came to visit us. Dzhokhar was born prematurely. They were staying in Kizlyar with relatives, and that's where he was born.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, I lived in Kaspiysk.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: I don't want to give you false information, to be honest. I don't recall exactly.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: No, I think I was approximately 20 years old.
MR. FICK: Now, last week -- do you remember I showed you from his -- Dzhokhar's American immigration file a birth certificate from Kyrgyzstan? Do you remember looking at that with me?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, I remember.
MR. FICK: And I want to make sure there's no objection, but I would like to put the document on the screen just as a chalk, if I could.
MR. WEINREB: Let's see it first.
THE COURT: Why don't you put it up. I've taken the jury down. Why don't you just put it up.
MR. FICK: Okay. Thank you, your Honor.
Is there -- I guess, is there an objection to using it as a chalk?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Is there a translation for the chalk?
THE COURT: Just an illustration? That's fine. You can use it as a chalk.
BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: That's what it says.
MS. PELLEGRINI: I'm going to object, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: I don't think so because "Dzhokhar," not "Dzhokhar."
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: I don't know. Maybe that's the pronunciation in Chechen. I can't tell you exactly, but the name is "Dzhokhar" without V.
MR. FICK: And is it fair to say that on the birth certificate there is a V in the middle of the name?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Your Honor, I'm going to object.
THE COURT: Sustained. I think she's indicated she doesn't really have a basis for answering.
THE COURT: Move along.
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: What is the date of birth on this document? I'm sorry. Let me just repeat the question. On the document that we're looking at, what is written down as the date of birth?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: 22nd July. It's not quite clear if it's June or July.
MR. WEINREB: May we approach, your Honor?
THE COURT: All right.
(Discussion at sidebar and out of the hearing of the jury:)
THE COURT: Before I hear the objection, tell me what the point of this is.
MR. FICK: It's to show the level of chaos in the family. We're not trying to suggest that he is under 18, but there are multiple things about this document that are very strange, and we're trying to go through each one of them. There's a suggestion that --
THE COURT: No. It hasn't even been authenticated.
MR. FICK: It's what's in his U.S. immigration file, so it is the document that U.S. authorities relied upon.
THE COURT: No. Let's get to something else.
(In open court:)
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: Ms. Suleimanova, were there times when you lived with Zubeidat and Anzor and their family outside of Dagestan?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. I lived with them in Kyrgyzstan.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: My father opened a brick factory in Kyrgyzstan, and they formed a team of workers who -- my whole family went. And in order for me not to stay with the men, I lived with Zubeidat.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Fourteen.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: My father.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, my sisters and my mother stayed in Dagestan.
MR. FICK: During this time, did you sometimes take care of the children in the evening when Anzor and Zubeidat would go out?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, I stayed and watched the children.
MS. PELLEGRINI: Can we have a date on this, your Honor?
THE COURT: Yeah, let's locate it a little bit in context.
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: Do you remember approximately what year you stayed with Anzor and Zubeidat in Kyrgyzstan?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: One second. It was sometime in '87 or '88 if I was 14 years old.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: No, at that time they only had Tamerlan and Bella.
MR. FICK: Okay. But on occasion in the evening when they would go out, you would stay with Tamerlan and Bella, correct?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, I stayed home.
MR. FICK: And is there a particular experience or memory that you wish to share about one of those occasions?
MS. PELLEGRINI: I'm going to object to the relevance of this.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: In addition to the time that you lived with the Tsarnaev family in Kyrgyzstan, was there a time when you lived with them and helped with the children in Chechnya?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, when they moved to Chechnya.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: I don't remember the year exactly.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Before the war broke out in Chechnya.
MR. FICK: And did something happen at the internal border between Dagestan and Chechnya when you were traveling to move there?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
THE COURT: No, just -- let's get back on track. Remember what the case is about, please.
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: Well, so you moved with Anzor and Zubeidat and their family to Chiri-Yurt, Chechnya, correct?
MR. FICK: And I'm just going to put up again on the screen the map of the region. Was this Chiri-Yurt up here in Chechnya?
INTERPRETER: It doesn't come on.
THE COURT: My fault.
BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, yes.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, across the border.
MR. FICK: And what caused you to -- or who made the decision to send you to help Anzor and Zubeidat in Chiri-Yurt?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: My parents decided to let me go and help around the time that they were acclimatizing to the new place.
MR. FICK: I'm going to put up on the screen and move into evidence what's been marked as 3507-77.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-77 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: Do you recognize this as being what remains of the house in Chiri-Yurt where they lived?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, I recognize. That's the house.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-79 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-80 received into evidence.)
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, from in the courtyard.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-81 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: I'm sorry. Moving back to the time you lived with Zubeidat and Anzor in Kyrgyzstan, did you become acquainted at that time with some of Anzor's family in Kyrgyzstan?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, Aunt Liza, Maret, Malkana, Anvar, and Dalvi.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-16 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, this is Liza's house.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: In Kyrgyzstan.
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. FICK:
MS. PELLEGRINI: Same question actually, also leading.
THE COURT: You may answer that.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Not conflicts per se, but everybody wants to have a daughter-in-law from the same ethnic background, and here you have a daughter-in-law who is an Anvar, and they didn't know much about the Anvars.
BY MR. FICK:
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: There was some negative feelings. My mother-in-law didn't want my husband to marry me, and there was the same situation there.
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: Returning now to the time in Chiri-Yurt in Chechnya, did a time come when Zubeidat and Anzor left Chechnya and returned to Dagestan?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Well, I object. I don't object to the "when," but I do object to the "why."
THE COURT: All right. It's multiple. Let's take the "when" first.
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: Do you remember approximately when that occurred? How long had they been in Chiri-Yurt when they left?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: I don't remember how long they lived there, but they didn't live there long.
MS. PELLEGRINI: Now I have an objection to the "why."
THE COURT: Sustained.
THE COURT: Basis of knowledge.
BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: I was there when they moved there --
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: -- to Chiri-Yurt.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: When they left Chiri-Yurt, you're asking?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: I was in Kaspiysk then, at home.
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. FICK:
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: You may answer that.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: The war was unraveling there. When we were moving there with all the stuff, we were stopped at the border.
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Same.
THE COURT: I think it's a volunteered answer. Let's get another question.
BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: They were in Dagestan in Makhachkala.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Not often -- not as often as I wanted to at that time. I was married, I had my own house, I had a child, and I was there.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. Rarely, but I did see them.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, of course.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-27 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Of course.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: This is in Makhachkala at their house.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Dzhokhar.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: He's doing his homework.
MR. FICK: And do you have a memory of interacting with Dzhokhar in that apartment and some of the things he did?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Of course I do. I remember everything.
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: There are very many. He was so warm. He was so caring. One would want to hug him and not let him go. He was an unusual child. He was wonderful kid. He was the first one who helped the wife of Mukhammad Haji, Patimat, discover her maternal feelings. She's a very stern woman. She worked in security forces, and she was very pedantic and made her children follow the rules all the time. And when Jahar appeared, he changed her drastically. She would even let him urinate in the sink in the kitchen, and it was very strange for us.
MR. FICK: A couple of days ago, do you remember listening to an audio recording that I played for you from Tamerlan's computer?
NABISAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, I remember.
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: In the area where you live in Dagestan, is there a problem that you experience day to day with the spread of extremist ideas?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
(Counsel confer off the record.)
MR. FICK: Your Honor, I'm going to suggest that we take the lunch recess. I'm almost done, but we have a couple of issues to resolve plus to find out --
THE COURT: I would rather finish.
THE COURT: I would rather finish.
(Counsel confer off the record.)
MS. PELLEGRINI: No questions.
THE COURT: All right, Ms. Suleimanova. You may step down.
(The witness is excused.)
THE COURT: And now we will take the lunch recess.
COURT CLERK: All rise for the Court and the jury. The Court will take the lunch recess.
(The Court and jury exit the courtroom and there is a recess in the proceedings at 12:57 p.m.)
COURT CLERK: All rise for the Court.
(The Court enters the courtroom at 2:08 p.m.)
THE COURT: I'm told somebody wants to see me at the side? I'll see counsel at the side.