6.Shakhruzat Suleimanova — Direct
344 linesSHAKRUZAT SULEIMANOVA, sworn through interpreter
COURT CLERK: Have a seat. State your name, and spell your first and last name for the record.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Suleimanova, Shakhruzat.
MR. FICK: Your Honor, with the Court's indulgence, I'll spell the first name and, in fact, put it up on the monitor for everyone's convenience: S-H-A-K-H-R-U-Z-A-T.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. FICK:
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Thank you.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Shari, yes.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: The village of Chokh. Gubinskyi region.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, Chokh.
MR. FICK: And just putting up on the screen -- Kaspiysk is this area near Makhachkala and the Caspian Sea. Is that right?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Now I live at the village of Shamkhal.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3505-107 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: I work in the hospital. I'm a nurse's assistant.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Four girls.
MR. FICK: And on the family tree that's on the screen, I'm circling in English, but the Russian is on paper in front of you, if you need it. Is this you and your husband and your children that I've circled?
MR. FICK: And so the two young women we've heard from already this morning, Raisat and Naida, they're two of your daughters?
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: She's taking care of the children. Raisat has a daughter, and Naida has a daughter, so she's taking care of all the children.
BY MR. FICK:
THE COURT: All right.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-91 received into evidence.)
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, I do.
BY MR. FICK:
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my mother. Her name is Aishat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is myself, Shari.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my oldest sister, Patimat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is the youngest sister, Zubeidat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is at our house. This is at our home in Chokh.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: It's a big town. Very big town, Chokh.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: A thousand people, maybe 1200.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-92 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my father.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: He was a shepherd at the collective farm. He worked at the collective farm as a shepherd.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: No, she did not.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: She was sick. She had cancer. She had breast cancer.
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: It was very hard for us. Our mother was always in the hospital, and we had to take care of the younger brothers and sisters, and she was always in the hospital. She had three surgeries.
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: So what was your role in helping to take care of the younger children, including Zubeidat?
INTERPRETER: May the interpreter ask that the witness break it up a little bit, the testimony?
THE COURT: Yes, it's probably best if you ask her to do that as you go along. Don't try to translate too much a chunk at once.
MR. FICK: Let me just start with a fresh question maybe, perhaps, your Honor, and we can just start again.
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: What was your role in helping to take care of the other children when your mother was ill?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: I did the raising. When my mother was discharged from the hospital, she couldn't do much.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: I was right next to her. I cooked the meals. I did laundry. I supported them. They would ask me when would Mother be back. I would console the younger children. I would say the mother is coming soon. She will be in a week or she will be back in two weeks. A week would pass, and the mother wouldn't be home, so they would ask again why isn't the mother home.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. She would come twice a week from where she lived.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: It's 15 kilometers.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Two hours.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, she was already married.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. I was married when I was 18.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: It was very difficult for her. I had always been next to her. And our oldest sister wasn't living at home anymore, so it was very hard for Zubeidat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. She approached me under the table. She was patting my legs under the table. And she was crying. She was saying, "Shari, let's go home. What, are you going to stay with those strangers?" It was very painful for me. I tried to console her. I said, "Go home. I'll come and tuck you in at night."
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: She was seven.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-7 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my sister Zubeidat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Three years. And then she went to live with our older brother.
MR. FICK: And I'm going to put the family tree back up here so that we can all see what we're talking about. You say that after about three years in Chokh she went to live with your oldest brother, is that right, and his wife?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: That's right. Older brother, Mukhammad Haji, took her to live with him.
MR. FICK: And is that the person I've circled here on your family tree, Mukhammad Haji, and Patimat, his wife?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Our father. He's the older brother. That's why he took her.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: The mother was no longer alive. I was married, and the older brother took the girl to live with him.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, he lived in Makhachkala.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Until she was in the ninth grade. She graduated from the ninth grade there.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Then our other brother Aliskhab took her. He was in charge of the highway patrol there, and so he took her to live with him.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, correct.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: So she was there for the tenth grade, and once she graduated from school, the other brother took her to live with him in Novosibirsk.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: The older brother decided that because they didn't have school beyond ninth grade.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: So she finished tenth grade there, and another brother who is now deceased took her to Novosibirsk so she could apply and study at the University.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, in Siberia.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Very far.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Murtuz.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Our older brother and our father.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: The brother who lived there, he called our father.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: He was asking if the father was giving his permission for Anzor to marry Zubeidat.
MR. FICK: And why was -- why were they asking your father's permission? Could Zubeidat have married without your father's permission?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: No. In our tradition a woman cannot marry without the permission of her father or, if the father is deceased, without the permission of the older brother.
MR. FICK: And when you say "older brother," do you mean oldest brother or simply any older brother?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: The oldest.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: At first we didn't like that. Everybody wants their own people.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Because we don't allow our daughters to marry a person from a different ethnicity, and also we don't take people from other ethnicities to marry our people.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-12 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-14 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, yes.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, it's very cold.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: When they came home from there. That's when I met him, when they came home.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, that's when I met him.
MR. FICK: So do you have any understanding of what might have brought Zubeidat and Anzor to Kalmykia?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: We don't know that. They didn't live next to us. How would we know?
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-13 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Tamerlan.
MR. FICK: And so was this photo taken around the time they came -- the first time you met Anzor in Dagestan?
MR. FICK: Did Anzor and Zubeidat move around a lot in the time you knew them before they came to America?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, they moved a lot.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: To Kyrgyzstan. I went to Kyrgyzstan.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. Yes, they did.
MR. FICK: What did you observe about -- what, if anything, did you observe about the effect all of the moving had on the children?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: We watched the children when they came when the children were young. It was very painful for us when they came and went. It's very painful. It's very hard when your relatives live far away.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Well, it's hard when you move from one place to another when you need time to get to know the teachers.
MR. FICK: Were there occasions when you sent your oldest daughter, Nabisat, to help Anzor and Zubeidat with their children?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. Yes. She stayed there three months. She was watching the children.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: 13 or 14, I think.
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection to this line of questioning.
THE COURT: Overruled.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: My husband, Magomed.
BY MR. FICK:
MR. FICK: And was there another occasion when you sent your daughter Nabisat to Chechnya to help Anzor and Zubeidat?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Then she was 15 or 16.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Also my husband, Magomed.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-90 received into evidence.)
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is Anzor, the husband of my sister's.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my husband, Magomed.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my sister Zubeidat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my daughter Naida.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my daughter Raisat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my daughter Nabisat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my nephew, the son of my sister Fatimat [sic].
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Patimat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, Bashir.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is myself, Shari.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is Ailina, my niece, the daughter of my sister's.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my younger daughter, Rabiyat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is also my sister's son, Tamerlan.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my oldest sister, Patimat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is Zubeidat's daughter Bella.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Not exactly, but I think it was 1994.
MR. FICK: Dzhokhar isn't there yet. Does that help orient you a little bit? Maybe was it earlier?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yeah, Dzhokhar wasn't -- wasn't there yet.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Maybe. I don't recall exactly.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is Kyrgyzstan.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-113 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is in Makhachkala at my younger brother Shakhrudin.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is me.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my sister Zubeidat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my daughter, Naida.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my brother's wife, Patulya.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, this is my brother Shakhrudin.
MR. FICK: And then one more photo I would like to show you, 3507-115, which I would also move into evidence.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3507-115 received into evidence.)
BY MR. FICK:
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is my sister Zubeidat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is myself.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: This is sister Patimat.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: He was eight years old. He was in the second grade when he left. I haven't seen him since.
MR. FICK: Describe what kind of child Jahar was in the time that you knew him when he was with you.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: He was a very good boy, quiet, shy. Somebody told him something, he was so shy, he would turn his face away. He was a very good boy, a very quiet boy. The family was fun-loving. Very good family. Very hospitable. They respected each other very much. They didn't talk back. They were so good. They wouldn't hurt a fly. My sister's children was such good children.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes, of course. We felt very bad. We cried a lot. We didn't want them to go.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Because it's so far. We didn't want our youngest sister to be so far away from us. She wouldn't have the love that she would if she were close to us, so we didn't want her to go. She was like a daughter to me. I raised her. I treated her like a daughter. It was like somebody tore her away from me when she left.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: She came back in about five or six years.
MR. FICK: And the first few times she visited, did she seem more or less as she always had been? Was she the same person?
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: The first time she came she was the same.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. When she came right before the brother died, she came and she was all covered up. We were all shocked. We were all in pain. We were very scared. We had never had people like that in our family. We prayed, we fasted, but no people like that. We cried. My oldest sister and I, we asked, "What, do they dress like that in America? Why are you -- why do you look like that?"
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: It was scary to look at her. We had never had people like that in our family. Usually, you're dressed in all black when you're mourning someone deceased. People would wear black when a brother dies or a father dies, or people would wear black for a year when in mourning, but not in other locations. She had never been like that. She had always been fun-loving. She had never covered her hair with a scarf. The family was fun-loving. They liked to --
MS. PELLEGRINI: Your Honor, objection first to "family," and, secondly, can we have a question?
THE COURT: Yeah, okay. Let's have this answer.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: The family was fun-loving. They used to dance and sing. They liked to have fun. And when she came like that, we were in shock.
BY MR. FICK:
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: The last time we saw him when he left -- before he left for the United States. When he came back for three or four months, he was there.
SHAKHRUZAT SULEIMANOVA: Yes. He started talking about religion. He was very different, Tamerlan, and we hadn't seen him since he'd left.
MS. PELLEGRINI: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. PELLEGRINI: No questions.
THE COURT: No questions? All right, Ms. Suleimanova, you may step down.
(The witness is excused.)