8.Catheryn Charner-Laird — Direct/Cross
103 linesCATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD, Sworn
COURT CLERK: Have a seat. State your name. Spell your first and last name for the record. Keep your voice up and speak into the mic so everyone can hear you.
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: Catheryn Charner-Laird, C-a-t-h-e-r-y-n, C-h-a-r-n-e-r - L-a-i-r-d.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: Good afternoon, Miss Charner-Laird. Where do you work?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I work at the Cambridgeport School.
MS. CONRAD: Is that a private school or a public school?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: It's a public school.
MS. CONRAD: In which school district?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: In the Cambridge Public School District.
MS. CONRAD: What is your position there?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I'm currently the principal of the school.
MS. CONRAD: How long -- when did you become the principal?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: In 2010.
MS. CONRAD: How long have you worked at the Cambridgeport School?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I have worked there -- I started as a teacher in 2002, and I had a hiatus for two years when I was in the Newton Public Schools, from 2008 to 2010.
MS. CONRAD: And then you went back?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: And then I went back, correct.
MS. CONRAD: What grades are at that school now?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: Currently, it's junior kindergarten through fifth grade.
MS. CONRAD: Did you work at the Cambridgeport School -- let me stop there. Where did you go to school?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I went to undergraduate at Swarthmore College; graduate degree from UC Berkley; and Harvard Graduate School of Education.
MS. CONRAD: Did you work at the Cambridgeport School in -- in the 2002 to 2003 school year?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: Yes, I did.
MS. CONRAD: What grades were you teaching at that time?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I taught a combined third- and fourth-grade class.
MS. CONRAD: Did you have Jahar Tsarnaev in your class?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: Yes, I did.
MS. CONRAD: Do you see him in the courtroom?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: Yes, I do.
MS. CONRAD: When you first met Jahar, was he new to this country?
MS. CONRAD: Did you know where he came from?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I don't recall if I knew at the time.
MS. CONRAD: Did he start at the very beginning of the school year?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I believe it was not the first day of school. I believe it was a couple days or weeks into school.
MS. CONRAD: How was his English?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: He was just learning English at that time, so he didn't speak a lot in the beginning. English was his second language. And he was, as any newcomer would be, initially very quiet and eventually learning bits and pieces and, you know, towards the end of the school year, speaking more.
MS. CONRAD: Now, do you recall how old he was when he started in your class?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I don't recall.
MS. CONRAD: But that would have been the fall of 2002?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: The fall of 2002, yes.
MS. CONRAD: I'm just going to show you a document and see if that refreshes your recollection.
MS. CONRAD: The document camera just for the witness, please.
MS. CONRAD: Does that refresh your recollection how old he was in the fall of 2002?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: Yes. So he would have been nine years old in the fall of 2002.
MS. CONRAD: Is that the usual age for a child starting the third grade?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: So typically that would have been fourth grade.
MS. CONRAD: What was he like?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: He was incredibly hard working. He cared a lot about his studies. You know, he tried very hard. I think a lot of times he didn't know exactly what to do but wouldn't necessarily ask for help right away but always wanted to do the right thing.
MS. CONRAD: Was he a discipline problem?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: Never.
MS. CONRAD: As the year progressed, did his English improve?
MS. CONRAD: By the end of the year, how would you say his English was?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I would say it was not necessarily fluent, but it was very proficient.
MS. CONRAD: How did he get along with the other students, the other children, in his class?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: He got along well. In the beginning, I think he was quiet, and so it took a little while to warm up. He didn't necessarily know how to communicate. But by the end of the year, he had made lots of friends.
MS. CONRAD: Were there any activities that he enjoyed, for example, during recess?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I do remember he was always playing soccer at recess.
MS. CONRAD: By himself or with other kids?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: No, with other kids. That was definitely a way he could connect.
MS. CONRAD: Did you meet his parents at any point?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I did.
MS. CONRAD: Do you remember anything about this, recognizing this is 12 years ago, 11 gears ago?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I don't remember specifics, but I do remember that we had a parent conference. I do remember that they very much wanted him to be advanced a grade. That, you know, he was placed in third grade in a combined three/four classroom, and they kept asking was he doing well enough to move ahead.
MS. CONRAD: Did you have an opinion about whether he was doing well enough to move ahead?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I didn't have an opinion about moving ahead. My opinion was that he was doing very well academically.
MS. CONRAD: At grade level, above grade level?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I think it was hard to assess in terms of his English skills. It wouldn't have been above grade level. But his math skills were definitely probably above grade level at that time.
MS. CONRAD: Do you remember all the students that you taught?
MS. CONRAD: Even though it's been quite awhile, you remember Jahar?
MS. CONRAD: What do you remember about him?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: I mean, I do remember how hard he worked. It's not easy to come into a classroom and not know how to speak the language. And he worked very hard. He never seemed to stop just because -- or give up.
MS. CONRAD: I don't have any further questions. Thank you.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Very briefly.
THE COURT: Hang on.
MS. CONRAD: Not yet.
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: Sorry.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. CHAKRAVARTY:
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: You knew the defendant 11 years ago?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: He was my student in 2002, 2003.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: That was third grade?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: And third grade is normally eight-year-olds, right?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: People have their whole lives ahead of them at that age?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: You described the defendant as being disciplined?
CATHERYN CHARNER-LAIRD: Disciplined, yes.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: You thought he was pretty smart?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Thank you.
MS. CONRAD: I could call another witness or we can --
THE COURT: No. I think we'll take the recess. You may now step down. We'll take the lunch recess at this point.
COURT CLERK: All rise for the Court and the jury. The court will take the lunch recess.
(Luncheon recess taken at 12:57 p.m.)
COURT CLERK: All rise for the Court and the jury.
(The Court and jury enter the courtroom at 2:08 p.m.)
COURT CLERK: Be seated.
MS. CONRAD: The defense calls Tracey Gordon.