10.Rebecca Norris — Direct
202 linesREBECCA NORRIS, duly sworn
COURT CLERK: State your name, spell your first and last name for the record, keep your voice up and speak into the mic so everyone can hear you.
REBECCA NORRIS: Becki -- Rebecca Norris, R-E-B-E-C-C-A, or B-E-C-K-I, N-O-R-R-I-S.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: Good afternoon, Ms. Norris. Ms. Norris, where do you work?
REBECCA NORRIS: Community Charter School of Cambridge.
MS. CONRAD: And what's your position there?
REBECCA NORRIS: I'm the middle school principal.
MS. CONRAD: And what is the Community Charter School of Cambridge?
REBECCA NORRIS: It's sixth through 12th grade school in Cambridge. It's a public school. We opened in 2005 with seventh, eighth and ninth graders.
MS. CONRAD: And how many grades does the school have now?
REBECCA NORRIS: Sixth through 12th.
MS. CONRAD: Now, how long have you been at the Community Charter School of Cambridge?
REBECCA NORRIS: This is year 10 for me. I started in 2005.
MS. CONRAD: When did you become the principal?
REBECCA NORRIS: This is year four for me.
MS. CONRAD: So back in 2000 -- I need to look at my dates -- 2005, did you -- or was it earlier -- did you meet -- well, at some point did you meet Jahar Tsarnaev?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah, I met Jahar in the summer before we started the school in July 2005.
MS. CONRAD: 2005? And did he attend the school?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And what were the circumstances when you met him in the summer of 2005?
REBECCA NORRIS: We have an advisory system at the school, so every teacher has an advisory with about ten kids in it, and I was assigned to be Jahar's advisor the summer before we started the school. And we did home visits for all of our advisees. So that's how I met him.
MS. CONRAD: Now, is this a school that someone is assigned to attend by the Cambridge school system?
REBECCA NORRIS: No, it's a school of choice. So students -- families apply for a lottery, and we pick the names, and whoever gets in, gets in.
MS. CONRAD: In addition to having Jahar in advisory, did you also teach him?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah. Yeah. I taught him for seventh grade for a combined math and science class that met for about seven and a half hours a week, so it's a double-block class, and then in eighth grade I taught him in algebra 2, which was just a regular four-and-a-half-hour-a-week class.
MS. CONRAD: And how was he as a student?
REBECCA NORRIS: He was a very good student. He was really bright and -- well, he was in algebra 2 in eighth grade, which was normally a tenth-grade class, so he was really good at science -- at math, and he was good at science too. I taught him in science. Yeah, it really -- hardworking, smart kid, well-behaved. The teachers all loved him.
MS. CONRAD: What kind of grades did he get in your class; do you remember?
REBECCA NORRIS: He was getting mostly As. I think he might have had Bs for a couple of grading periods, but he was pretty much an A student.
MS. CONRAD: And what else do you remember about him? Let's talk, instead of academics, about his personality.
REBECCA NORRIS: When I first met him, he was really shy and quiet. I spoke Russian, so I would practice my Russian a little bit with him, and that was a little bit of a connection there. And then we just spent a lot of time together in class and in advisory, so I got to know him. He wasn't a rebel. Basically if you asked him to do something, he would do it. Sometimes, like most middle-schoolers, he needed a little push, but he would only need one. So if he came to school one day and his homework was only partially done, and I would say, "Jahar, you're so much better than this. I know you can do better than this," and the next day it would be perfect.
MS. CONRAD: How did he get along with other students?
REBECCA NORRIS: Great. One of my concerns when I first met him was he seemed so quiet and shy and would he make friends, but he made friends quickly. He was affable. He was on the soccer team and so met a lot of kids that way and had a good group of friends, including a couple of close friends in our advisory.
MS. CONRAD: Do you remember the Silvas in particular?
REBECCA NORRIS: I remember the Silvas. They weren't in the classes I taught, so the classes that I had with Jahar, they weren't in that class, so I didn't see them interact that much.
MS. CONRAD: So I'm going to show a page from his eighth-grade report card, which I think is --
MS. CONRAD: Do you have that exhibit number?
(Counsel confer off the record.)
MS. CONRAD: I'd offer this, first of all, your Honor. It's just a page of 3555.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Just the page is fine, your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, so it's --
MS. CONRAD: Let's call it 355A [sic].
THE COURT: Yes. Okay.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3555A received into evidence.)
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: So just showing you this document, do you now -- does that help you remember how his grades were?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah. They were really good. He had all As and -- in algebra 2 that year.
MS. CONRAD: And he had -- looks like he had all As in everything except for Spanish, right?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah. Yeah.
MS. CONRAD: And getting As in algebra 2 as an eighth-grader, was that unusual?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah. Algebra 2 is a tough class, so it took a lot of skill and hard work for him to get there.
MS. CONRAD: Now, you mentioned that he played soccer. Did you have some connection to the soccer team?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah, my husband was the soccer coach, so I would go to their games.
MS. CONRAD: I'm going to ask -- by the way, I forgot to ask. Do you see Jahar in the courtroom?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And he's seated at counsel table?
REBECCA NORRIS: I'm sorry?
MS. CONRAD: He's seated at counsel table?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: I guess he looks a little different from when you last saw him?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah, I ran into him in high school, and he's changed a little since then, but a lot since middle school.
MS. CONRAD: Well, we'll talk about the running into him in high school in a minute, but let's stick with middle school. So showing you -- sorry. I lost my exhibit numbers -- showing you 3243, can you tell us who you see in this --
MS. CONRAD: I'd offer this, unless the government has an objection.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: No objection.
THE COURT: Okay. Admitted.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3243 received into evidence.)
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: And do you recognize anyone in this photograph?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah, that's Jahar and my husband, Donald.
MS. CONRAD: And is your husband in the courtroom right now?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yes.
MS. CONRAD: And what's happening in this picture?
REBECCA NORRIS: The soccer team won second place in the charter school league champions -- championship, so they got to go to the championship game, and I think they lost the game on a shootout. But they got a trophy, and that was Jahar having his trophy given to him.
MS. CONRAD: And was Jahar a good soccer player?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah, he was one of the best.
MS. CONRAD: So let me ask you this. I mean, he was a really good student, and he was a good soccer player. Was he kind of full of himself?
REBECCA NORRIS: No, not at all. He just always came off as quiet and friendly and humble.
MS. CONRAD: And let's go to the next photograph, please.
MS. CONRAD: And this is -- I can't read it up there, 3412.
MS. CONRAD: I'd offer this.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: No objection.
THE COURT: All right.
(Defense Exhibit No. 3412 received into evidence.)
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: And tell us about this photograph.
REBECCA NORRIS: That's January 2007. I had gone off on maternity leave after having my daughter, and I think she was only ten days old when I brought her in to meet the advisory. They'd all been really excited to meet her after seeing me get bigger and bigger for all those months. And so I didn't want her around all the students because she was so tiny, but I brought her during advisory time so she could just meet that small group of students and offered to let them wash their hands and hold her. And only a couple of the boys wanted to hold her. I think they thought they would break her. But Jahar was -- wanted to. And so he was one of them, and seemed happy doing it.
MS. CONRAD: And so this is Jahar holding the baby?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah.
MS. CONRAD: And let's go to the next -- I think it's 3413.
MS. CONRAD: And what's this a photograph of?
REBECCA NORRIS: That's just a school picture. I think that one is eighth grade.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Your Honor, I have no objection to all of these.
THE COURT: So you have the list. You don't object to any of them?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Correct.
MS. CONRAD: So we would offer this 3413, and then next would be, I think, 3420 through -22.
(Defense Exhibit Nos. 3413 and 3320 through 3422 received into evidence.)
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: And you said that was eighth grade?
REBECCA NORRIS: I think so.
MS. CONRAD: He looks kind of young, a little on the small side?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah, he was a pretty tiny kid.
MS. CONRAD: Okay.
MS. CONRAD: 3420, please.
MS. CONRAD: Tell us about this photograph.
REBECCA NORRIS: That was after the soccer team got their trophies and the whole team went out -- I don't remember where, but we got them pizza and soda and had a little celebration.
MS. CONRAD: And 3521?
THE COURT: I think you mean 3421.
MS. CONRAD: 34. Right. I can't remember what I said. But whatever your Honor said, that's what I meant.
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: And this is from the same event?
REBECCA NORRIS: Uh-huh.
MS. CONRAD: And 3422?
MS. CONRAD: So in this picture, this is, again, the same post-soccer tournament event, and the child he's sitting next to seems quite a bit bigger. Is that someone his age?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah, I think that student was a tenth-grader when Jahar was an eighth-grader, so he was a lot older and had hit adolescence at that point.
MS. CONRAD: And Jahar hadn't?
REBECCA NORRIS: Jahar hadn't. No, I don't think so.
MS. CONRAD: Did you ever meet any members of his family?
REBECCA NORRIS: I met his mom.
MS. CONRAD: And tell us about that.
REBECCA NORRIS: So I met her on the phone, calling to organize a home visit before I'd met any of them, and I recognized that their last name was Russian, and I asked her in Russian if she spoke Russian, and luckily she did, and so she was thrilled that I spoke it. And I made an appointment, came over, and she was very friendly with me. She introduced me to Jahar and his sister Ailina, who went to the school as well, and she and Jahar and I sat -- I think it was -- if I remember correctly, I think it was at a little table sort of on the patio outside. I went up to their apartment, but then I think we ended up going outside. And I think she fed me, and she told me that she was studying for --
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Objection, your Honor, the substance of what she was saying.
THE COURT: No, overruled. You may have that.
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: Go ahead.
REBECCA NORRIS: She told me she was studying to apply permanent makeup, this cosmetology-type thing, and offered to do it for me sometime if I wanted her to. And I remember she said, "We'll be good friends." She was just very, very friendly with me.
MS. CONRAD: You mentioned that you speak Russian. How is it that you speak Russian?
REBECCA NORRIS: I was a Russian major in college.
MS. CONRAD: And where was that?
REBECCA NORRIS: University of Arizona.
MS. CONRAD: Is that where you're from?
REBECCA NORRIS: Uh-huh.
MS. CONRAD: And did Jahar attend -- oh, strike that. Is there an event called Roundtable?
REBECCA NORRIS: Uh-huh.
MS. CONRAD: Tell us about that, please.
REBECCA NORRIS: So at CCSC, students have to present what's called a Roundtable in June, and they have to pass the Roundtable in order to be promoted to the next grade. We started this the second year at CCSC, so this was in June of 2007 when Jahar was an eighth-grader. And they have a portfolio of some of the major work they've done throughout the year, projects, essays, things like that, and they present it to a small panel of people, including usually a parent or guardian, and then they get asked -- they're kind of grilled about their work and what they've learned that year. It feels kind of like a mini version of a defense that you would do for grad school, but for us they're defending what they've learned so that they can go on to the next grade.
MS. CONRAD: And this was at the end of eighth?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah.
MS. CONRAD: And do you remember whether Jahar's parents came to that?
REBECCA NORRIS: They didn't -- they weren't able to come to that.
MS. CONRAD: Do you know why?
REBECCA NORRIS: I think they said they were going to be out of town or out of the country, if I remember correctly, and so usually it's required for a parent or guardian to come, but he had his neighbor come instead.
MS. CONRAD: And do you remember who that was?
REBECCA NORRIS: That was Joanna Herlihy.
MS. CONRAD: And was that his landlady?
REBECCA NORRIS: I didn't know at the time, but I did know that he was really close to her and he felt really comfortable having her there.
MS. CONRAD: By the way, you mention that your husband was his soccer coach.
REBECCA NORRIS: Uh-huh.
MS. CONRAD: Have you and your husband talked about what his experience was like coaching Jahar?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah, he remembers him really well and really loved him too, just like I did.
MS. CONRAD: And what was he like to coach?
REBECCA NORRIS: He was -- well, he was just a very talented soccer player. He was little, but fast, and could get in between everybody, and very coachable. He was a kid who would do what the coach said and would play along as a team player and not try to showboat in any way and was just an asset to the team.
MS. CONRAD: And was that consistent as far as being coachable? Was that consistent with your experience with him?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah. Yes, very much.
MS. CONRAD: Do you recall whether his mother was covering her hair at that time?
REBECCA NORRIS: No, not -- definitely not.
MS. CONRAD: You don't remember or she wasn't?
REBECCA NORRIS: No, she wasn't covering at that time.
MS. CONRAD: Did Jahar attend ninth grade at the Community Charter School?
REBECCA NORRIS: Just for the first few days of the school year.
MS. CONRAD: And tell us what happened after that.
REBECCA NORRIS: So he was still in my advisory at that point. I don't -- I think he was in my geometry class for those few days. He didn't come to school one day. I didn't know why. When he came back, he told me that it was going to be his last day. And I found out from administrators at the school at the time that he had come to school -- we have a uniform, and the students' pants have to be black or tan colored, and he had come to school wearing blue pants. And he lived just down the street, really close, so the administrators had sent him home to change his pants. And --
MS. CONRAD: I'm sorry. Just to be clear, you were not an administrator at that time?
REBECCA NORRIS: No, I wasn't. And I didn't know that was happening that day. I just knew he wasn't in my class. And his -- I don't remember if it was the same day or a matter of days later, because I wasn't in the loop of what was happening with the pants situation, but I do know he didn't come back to school that day, and his mom ended up contacting the school and saying that she was very, very, very angry that he had been sent home to change his pants because he didn't have any pants that were clean and were -- matched the uniform, and she said, "We don't have the money" -- I think she said they had been out of town or something like that, so she couldn't help him. And so she said, "That's it. I'm pulling him. He's going to Cambridge Rindge and Latin."
MS. CONRAD: Now, you heard about this secondhand?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah.
MS. CONRAD: From another -- from an administrator or from Jahar?
REBECCA NORRIS: I think I heard about it from an administrator. I talked to him about it, but I think I heard about it from the administrator.
MS. CONRAD: So what happened when you talked to him about it?
REBECCA NORRIS: He loved CCSC, and he loved his friends and had a really solid, great friendships there and was finding a lot of success there. And I didn't want him to go, and I didn't think he wanted to go, from everything I could tell. And so I said, you know, "Your mom likes me. Can I call her and try to convince her otherwise?" And he just flat out said, "No, don't call her." Very politely but very respectfully, but, "No, don't call."
MS. CONRAD: And how did that come across to you? Why do you think he -- did you, at the time --
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: Did he say why he didn't want you to call her?
REBECCA NORRIS: I don't remember.
MS. CONRAD: And how did you feel about him leaving the school?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: What were your impressions of him at the time in terms of what the future held for Jahar?
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: You may answer that.
REBECCA NORRIS: He was one of our top students and one of our top athletes, and I thought -- our school is very college-prep focused, and we get students into very good colleges, and we get them very good financial aid packages, and I thought that would work out for him. I thought we would get him into a really good college with a full ride and he would be very successful.
BY MS. CONRAD:
MS. CONRAD: So after he left the charter school in the very beginning of ninth grade, did you see him again?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah, I ran into him -- I think I ran into him a couple of times, just in Cambridge, but the one time I remember the best was when he was in high school, either -- I think he was either a sophomore or junior, I know he was taking chemistry.
MS. CONRAD: And do you know where he was in high school?
REBECCA NORRIS: At Cambridge Rindge and Latin, yeah.
MS. CONRAD: And tell us what that was like when you ran into him.
REBECCA NORRIS: So I was with my family, and we saw him on Cambridge Street, and we said, "Oh, that's Jahar," and we were so excited to see him. And we walked up to him and said hi, and he seemed very happy to see us. And I was asking him how he was doing in school, and he said, "Okay." And I said, "Well, how are your grades," because he was such a good student. And he said he had -- I think it was a D in chemistry.
MS. CONRAD: Were you surprised by that?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah. Yeah. I said, "Jahar, you're so much better than that. I know you can do so much better than that." And I think he changed the subject. He told me about wrestling and what a good job he was doing with wrestling. That I was surprised by, yeah.
MS. CONRAD: And do you remember all the students you've taught?
REBECCA NORRIS: Yeah. Not as -- well, he's one of the top handful, but...
MS. CONRAD: And why is that?
REBECCA NORRIS: Teachers stay with the same advisees for -- until they graduate, and so even though he left our advisory, he was still one of just a small handful that I got to know so well as an advisor. And he was also just -- we connected really well, and he was just a great kid who I had really great affection for. And there's only ever a handful of those, but you don't forget them.
MS. CONRAD: Thank you.
MR. CHAKRAVARTY: No questions, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right, Ms. Norris. You may step down.
(The witness is excused.)
MS. CLARKE: Your Honor, we'd call Rachel Otty.